[no players] 62 Maps and Lurkers in a Thread

[Amicalola]

I agree, we could at least ask Nauf again. Although he seems to be having fun in his own special way.

[Charriu]

I think they suffered enough. If nobody objects I will end this in an hour or two

[Mjmd]

Can someone who reviewed the map explain to me why some people had copper in their BFC, some people had copper 3rd ring, and some had 4th. Also, why some people had new food at their copper vs being forced to share. Also, poor Bing and Nauf were basically forced into an early war because coppers were pointed right at each other.

This map was a wild ride, but I think the copper placements to me were definitely a negative. Just all over the place and doesn't feel like it was balanced very well.

[superdeath]

doesn't feel like it was balanced very well.

[Charriu]

Since this game ended so early (before T100) are you interested in a usual end of PB tracking tool report?

[superdeath]

Since this game ended so early (before T100) are you interested in a usual end of PB tracking tool report?

This was a PB?

[Tarkeel]

Since this game ended so early (before T100) are you interested in a usual end of PB tracking tool report?

Yes please.

[Charriu]

Ok I will see to write something together.

[Mjmd]

Tarkeel stats good

Rest not as good

Wrote it for you

[Charriu]

You asked for it and it here it is the final report. So let's dive into this T88 report. As always all the data can be found here: PB62 Tracking

Before we start some notable observations:

• War, war never changes for Mjmd, naufragar and vanrober
  
• As does for Superdeath
  
• Tarkeel/Civac enjoyed peaceful development for the last turns.
  
• Other then that it's a sad world with no great persons at all and no more world wonders since the only one, naufragar's pyramid, were razed.
  

Now there is no new data compared to PB61, but I was able to fix the production trackings. Here a brief explanation of the new stuff:

Actual gold/science: This works like the previous science and gold tracking, but this time the slider setting is included. Therefore we know exactly how much everybody produced in those areas.
Production and TotalProduction: I thought about how to better judge all the hammer bonuses for buildings, units and wonders and thought that tracking the actual production might be a good metric to track. The production metric is somewhat useful though.
Tech Tracking: Similar to wonders and great persons I'm now also tracking when each player researched each tech. Small downside, I'm not tracking which tech the players choose from Oracle or Liberalism and tech tracking. The former should still be easy to guess in the context of other techs researched and the last is only used in diplo games in the past, so I didn't bother so far.
Tracking all the civics: I already tracked the labor civics in use. So why not track all of them.

General state of the game

First of all the city count

1. Tarkeel (IMP) = 12
   
2. Vanrober = 7
   
3. Mjmd (IMP) = 7
   
4. Superdeath = 4
   
5. naufragar = 3
   
6. Fabled (IMP) = 0
   
7. BING XI LAO (IMP) = 0
   

And here are the current amount of pop across those empires at the T88 mark:

1. Tarkeel (IMP) = 49
   
2. Vanrober = 26
   
3. Mjmd (IMP) = 19
   
4. Superdeath = 14
   
5. naufragar = 9
   
6. Fabled (IMP) = 0
   
7. BING XI LAO (IMP) = 0
   

Yes Tarkeel was in the lead, but this is only part of the complete picture. Let's turn our gaze towards some other more unknown numbers.

Like I already said in the beginning I'm also tracking the actual gold and science output of the players. But some additional info is needed. Like in previous PBs the gold number does not include maintenance cost of any kind and the science output does not include KTB and prereq bonuses from other techs. Reason is that I want to compare these numbers to the commerce output to see the effect of modifier buildings and in case of science I want to be able to compare the science output between players and KTB and prereq bonus are a distraction in this case. Both numbers do include extra gold/science from specialists, modifier buildings and other stuff I haven't mentioned so far. These actual numbers are most interesting when we add up all the numbers of each turn. For the current turn and the players potential income the virtual numbers are still more useful. These virtual numbers were my previous tracking and they treated the slider as always being on 100% gold or science. At first I want to look at the current turn numbers of the virtual gold income (all players running 100% gold). Science is basically the same numbers + 1 beaker:

1. Tarkeel (ORG) = 150
   
2. Vanrober (ORG) = 63
   
3. Mjmd (FIN) = 60
   
4. naufragar = 33
   
5. Superdeath (AGG) = 30
   
6. Fabled = 0
   
7. BING XI LAO (AGG) = 0
   

naufragar might be on the loosing side, but what we can see here is how important those capitols are in the early game. With naufragar's loses one would assume these numbers to be lower, which they aren't. We also know that this is not the full picture of their gold income. For that we need maintenance. FYI info this is the sum of all maintenance factors (city, unit, supply and civic).

1. naufragar = 23
   
2. Superdeath (AGG) = 26
   
3. Vanrober (ORG) = 60
   
4. Mjmd (FIN) = 60
   
5. Tarkeel (ORG) = 131
   
6. Fabled = 0
   
7. BING XI LAO (AGG) = 0
   

With the maintenance at hand we can now include that into the gold income to see how much gold everybody could make this turn:

1. Tarkeel (ORG) = 19
   
2. naufragar = 10
   
3. Vanrober (ORG) = 3
   
4. Superdeath (AGG) = 4
   
5. Mjmd (FIN) = 0
   
6. Fabled = 0
   
7. BING XI LAO (AGG) = 0
   

Tarkeel managed to turn his economy around. I have to say one thing that surprised me across the game is that everybody was running negative income at 0% science at some point.
Now let's see how good the player did across the whole span of 38 turns. For this we look at the accumulated actual science numbers, which I already have described above:

1. Tarkeel (ORG) = 954
   
2. Vanrober (ORG) = 955
   
3. Superdeath (AGG) = 901
   
4. Mjmd (FIN) = 706
   
5. naufragar = 694
   
6. Fabled = 393
   
7. BING XI LAO (AGG) = 359
   

No this may be surprising to some. Tarkeel is not in a leading position according to these numbers. This is mainly to crippling maintenance. For comparison Tarkeel had to make 2853 gold to get here compared to the next highest Mjmd with 1569 or vanrober with 1269.
But what exactly did the players do with all those beakers. Well fear not here it is:




It should be fairly self explantory. It's all the techs the players have researched so far. The number in front is the turn the players acquired the tech. Don't be fooled by Tarkeel having more techs as vanrober for example has the much more expensive Mathematics. Am I alone with this feeling or did we possibly end this PB to soon. With an attack on Tarkeel by Superdeath, the former might have been slowed down enough for vanrober to get even or ahead. Oh and hey the barbs did well in tech

Now next I want to turn to my new production tracking, but before that I have to explain in more detail how I collected this info for this PB. With this tracking I iterated through every city and added up all the hammers being produced this turn including forest chops and whips. It does include extra hammers from whipping, chopping and of course overflow. The only thing it is missing right now is hammers put into building wealth or science directly, but we are far away from that yet. I've also split the tracking into two categories Production and TotalProduction. Both work the same way but the important difference is that TotalProduction includes modifiers from buildings (forge, factory) and traits (All traits who have production bonuses). Now it's a bit sad that I can't divide it into more detail, but you can imagine that it will be very difficult for example to differentiate which extra hammer came from a forge and which from EXP granaries. Here are the accumulated total production numbers across 50 turns with the non-modified production numbers in parenthesis:

1. Tarkeel (IMP, ORG) = 3501 (3231)
   
2. Vanrober (CRE) = 2750 (2630)
   
3. Mjmd (IMP) = 2727 (2635)
   
4. naufragar = 2524 (2367)
   
5. Superdeath (AGG, CHA) = 1713 (1605)
   
6. Fabled (IMP) = 251 (221)
   
7. BING XI LAO (IMP, AGG) = 194 (178)
   

As you can see I also added the relevant traits in there based on what buildings are available by their tech. This for example is the reason why I did not mention CHA for Superdeath and Fabled. With this in mind, the numbers from T50 and the fact that nobody was running Organized Religion we can say for sure that the traits produced the following amounts of extra hammers:
IMP (Fabled) = 30
IMP (Mjmd) = 92
IMP (Tarkeel) = 191
ORG (Tarkeel) = 30
AGG (Superdeath) = 78
CHA (Superdeath) = 30 (did you build 2 monuments?)
CRE (vanrober) = 120
AGG or IMP (Bing) = 16 not sure if he started a barracks somewhere, but since the value is so low and he was eliminate it is irrelevant.
Pyramid with Stone (nauf) = 157
Stonehenge with Stone (Tarkeel) = ca. 10 (this is a guess, maybe Tarkeel can provide the actual invested production into that)

I have to say I was a bit shocked to see naufs numbers not because of how high it was, but rather why it's there at all. I feared I might have had an error in my tracking, but then I remembered he was building the pyramid and he had stone. Overall I have to admit that these are not 100% accurate numbers. I had to dig through your reports to assign the numbers as close to traits as possible. This was only possible because the empires are still small enough to do that. Unfortunately there no easy way (via the code) to differentiate all the production modifiers to each trait.

Comparing traits

The main goal of all this tracking of course is to compare the economic traits related around commerce income or maintenance reduction. So let's do this:




As you can see I changed the layout a little bit again in preparation for the new production tracking. I already color coded the 4 economic traits so that you easily see, who uses which trait. Except for FIN every trait has a hammer bonus so I included all of them. But I'm still disappointed in how this looks. I like how the 4 economics traits have light colors that are easy to distinguish. But with 7 more traits I'm running out of these colors. If anybody has a better idea how to do this I'm all ears.

This was a very unusual game. FIN was utter trash mainly because the players never got around to establish a big cottage economy. Of course ORG helped the big players, but for everybody else was on equal levels like PRO. Even on this map AGG did not manage to perform better then the other 4. This is mainly because the population provided enough unit maintenance reduction.

I said this before but I feel like I may have ended this game too soon as vanrober might have had a chance to get back. So sorry for that vanrober.