[SPOILERS] Woden and ljubljana like boats

[ljubljana]

Ok, I can try for He Was My Brother first if you think waiting for Rodeo is best. How is the loyalty situation at Illmatic and MMLP after the city capture, though? Do we need to be 100% sure we take Rodeo in order to both flip the latter city in a timely fashion and hold the former? That determines what we have to do next IMO, as we need to get out of here when williams gets subs and I am not confident we have time to spare if we want to be sure we can get Rodeo at all. That is especially true if there is an Australian IC coming next turn, in which case we will likely be unable to finish off the walls in 1t and will have to fight off any Russian counterattack under a hail of city defense fire... I am willing to wait on Rodeo but I think any more than, like, 1t of delay makes the city capture much less likely, so we should only do that if you are ok with that possibility.

[ljubljana]

For some reason I am getting a full turn now, not the WC - huh? That's unexpected... I also see that you took my favor deal and spent the favor. Does that mean you were able to propose a military emergency against Russia? We are in luck if so, as Russia gifted all their favor to Australia this turn and so you should be able to get it passed! We will have 3 votes to Russia's 1, so unless China not only votes no but spends favor to block it, we should be good.

edit: I guess I can answer my own question about loyalty:



It looks like taking Rodeo is not too important for Illmatic but very important for Low-End Theory, which will flip in 20 turns without it (after Victor moves there) but can be flipped in 6-7 if we max out the population pressure. I think we want to make sure we will get this city before trying for He Was My Brother, which means moving up next turn so we can hit it before he upgrades subs (which he can do in 2t as soon as he hooks up that oil). But I can try to advance my frigates north slightly so I can be in range of both cities next turn while still getting my Dreadnought shot in against Rodeo, though that does mean I will leave a hole in my caravel wall on the east side. Does that logic seem sound to you, or do you think waiting for the Illmatic destroyer is more important even if it means Russia will have subs to hit us with when we move up?

edit: I don't know what The Blueprint's situation is in the fog, but it might also flip to us if we can get Rodeo, especially after Low-End Theory is a free city. But if we miss that city then the rest of Australia will probably hold on loyalty-wise until the end of the game.

[Woden]

Illmatic shows revolt in ~56 turns and is at -0.9 loyalty per turn. I didn't think of it while playing but it might be worth moving Victor to MBDF, Illmatic is 8 tiles away, so will get the +4 loyalty. The Low-End Theory was at 31 turns to revolt, not sure what it will be now, as it doesn't update until next turn.

Williams can only support 3 subs when he hooks up the oil and he needs 3 techs to get Plastics. This will change if he settles the southern city with the 3 oils but we will have to deal with that in the future. I might send the ironclads guarding my IZ at Loki down there because 2 of the sources are coastal and can be pillaged after they are hooked up.

[Woden]

A special session always allows players to add a proposal before the WC turn. I did accept you diplo favor and proposed an emergency on Russia so they will have to use some favor to fight it. Hopefully we get votes from China, as Indonesia has a friendship. They will probably do the same for me, since I did just take his capital, no fighting it.

Edit: The earliest we will see subs is 4 turns. Two turns to hook up the oil, a turn to collect 3 oil, a turn for upgrades.

[ljubljana]

For Illmatic, yeah, and you can also just move Victor into Illmatic itself if you want to use Liang elsewhere. The +4 bonus does apply to the city Victor is in as well, as Asahi (former Mitla) is getting the boost now on Russia's end (I believe).

3 subs may be enough to push us back at Rodeo, especially when combined with all the privateers in the fog and whatever other ships they have assembled there. I am very afraid that we will miss the city if we wait as there are lots of things williams could do to buy himself an extra turn, like move some ships up into the area or try to snipe one of my frigates with spare privateers...

As for the special session, what confused me is that all the players did have a chance to propose resolutions, as I started the WC on my turn and every player has gone since then. But I guess if any other player had started it last round than I would have missed out, so probably the coding logic is that WC just always happens 2 round after someone proposes it, not on the first round after which everyone has had a chance to propose.

At any rate, we are very lucky Russia gifted their favor to Australia as we now have a realistic chance to pass our emergency, which Australia and Japan can't vote on due to their alliances. I do wonder what will happen if China votes for it, will it break Indonesia's DoF and drag them into war? And why did the game let you propose an emergency against them (when you have not even lost any cities to Russia) but not me? Is is that only third party civs who did not have their cities taken can propose emergencies?

[Woden]

For Illmatic, yeah, and you can also just move Victor into Illmatic itself if you want to use Liang elsewhere. The +4 bonus does apply to the city Victor is in as well, as Asahi (former Mitla) is getting the boost now on Russia's end (I believe).

Victors added loyalty doesn't apply to the city he is in, only neighboring cities.

3 subs may be enough to push us back at Rodeo, especially when combined with all the privateers in the fog and whatever other ships they have assembled there. I am very afraid that we will miss the city if we wait as there are lots of things williams could do to buy himself an extra turn, like move some ships up into the area or try to snipe one of my frigates with spare privateers...

Subs are better than privateers but they still only have a base melee strength of 65, 75 for fleets. They are still pretty squishy. My ironclads should be hitting at 90+ (with cards). With the destroyer in the area, we can target subs if they do show up.

As for the special session, what confused me is that all the players did have a chance to propose resolutions, as I started the WC on my turn and every player has gone since then. But I guess if any other player had started it last round than I would have missed out, so probably the coding logic is that WC just always happens 2 round after someone proposes it, not on the first round after which everyone has had a chance to propose.

Game doesn't account that you are Player 1, just that a special session was called on T192. Since WC happens at the end of the turn, T193 gives everybody a chance for a proposal and then the WC is at the end of T193.

At any rate, we are very lucky Russia gifted their favor to Australia as we now have a realistic chance to pass our emergency, which Australia and Japan can't vote on due to their alliances. I do wonder what will happen if China votes for it, will it break Indonesia's DoF and drag them into war? And why did the game let you propose an emergency against them (when you have not even lost any cities to Russia) but not me? Is is that only third party civs who did not have their cities taken can propose emergencies?

I was able to call it because he took Yerevan...ages ago.

[Woden]

Don't forget to vacate the campus for my field cannon. He should be able to attack at 101 CS (70 base + 22 promotions + 5 general + 4 WoR) on the campus. Not sure what Cossacks are running right now but he should be able to do significant damage to one.

Also, send me all your gold. It should almost be worth a fleet destroyer upgrade. I figure I can get 7 or 8, depending on the policy swap costs.

I have enough oil for 9 right now with another 3 once we clear out Russia's pillages by England.

[ljubljana]

Got it, will do. I suspect the Cossacks are headed for you now given their southward movement, so I may start redirecting some P/S to the south as well. Not the ones with high fortify bonuses, but some of the newer ones I should be able to spare.

Lol, Yerevan was in this game? I literally have no memory of that...

I still don't really understand why I couldn't call the emergency, though. I mean, if you had contact with Yerevan when Russia took it, I should have had contact as well, right? I am feeling very confused about the whole emergency process right now...

Do you think it's worth exposing a hole in my caravel line to push my frigates north a bit so they will be in range of He Was My Brother? I do not think there is a big wave of privateers ready to hit me from the east, but it will not be fun to be wrong about that, and with only 6 caravels I can't get all my ships in range without leaving a bit of a hole.

edit: In the meantime, please enjoy the shockingly glitched WC screen that greeted me when I first opened the turn:



This was PYDT's fault though (I think) as deleting and redownloading the save appears to have fixed it.

[Woden]

I might have been Yerevan's suzerain when it was conquered but don't really remember and don't fell like going back to check. I think I became suzerain to get some era score.

I don't think there is any privateers to the east that aren't pillaging England/Japan. He pillaged 3 tiles, so we know there are 3 there but I don't think 3 could kill my field cannon alone unless they were fleets, so maybe 4 or 5. I guess he could have sailed more from the south and snuck pass TMMLP but why not pillage at Japanese city. It has a niter mine and lighthouse/harbor. There were no units east of my ironclads at the start of my turn, as I didn't run into any and covered most tiles when retreating.

Edit: Can you get 2 tucked behind my ironclads? You will only need 2 and they should be safe from attack from the west. I also don't think he would attack 2 lone frigates and expose himself to swarm of fleet ironclads.

Edit2: Yerevan was the city state off the coast of Russia's start, between the main island and the island where Oracle Bones was settled.

[Woden]

Looking it over again, any frigates you sail north should be at least a tile away from Australia's borders so they don't have vision on them. Don't want to give them a target when we don't have too.