[SPOILERS] Woden and ljubljana like boats

[Woden]

Do I buy the factory at Loki? With the gold you sent and pillage gold, I have more than enough. It would add +6 production to Thor.

I also bought a trader at Thor. Manhattan Project says 15 turns to complete (@70.2production) but with 2 traders and repairing the pillaged tiles and the factory at Loki, it should be much less.

[ljubljana]

Wait, it would? I thought factory bonuses were once per city and you were already getting +6 hammers from the Thor factory. What other cities would the bonus production reach that aren't already in range of another factory?

Only other competing use I can think of is upgrading my caravels, which can probably wait. Although I am a bit concerned that there will be a bunch subs in my face in a few turns with the upgrades williams just did.

[Woden]

I think it gets the bonus from 1 neighboring factory. I could be wrong as it has been a while since I actually looked at it. Won't be the first time I am remembering something different from how it actually is in the game.

AS for the subs, the best bet is he retreated all the fleet privateers to around Mikasa and upgraded there. I think if I bring most of my ships over that way, I can cut him off from attacking you.

Edit: I am going to buy some housing in my most productive cities and then send you the remaining gold. I don't what to upgrade anymore destroyers while I am losing oil.

[Woden]

Turn 199-Vikings cont.
I decided to go after his battleships. I started off looking at the match ups and see I get a fairly good match up against the triple-promoted battleship...
   

Hoping for a good roll and lady luck is on my side. I kill it with just the destroyer. That lets me kill all 4 battleships I can see and kill 2 of the injured ICFs. Here is how I end up...
   

I get 12 era points for killing veteran units. I think  1 or 2 of my destroyers might survive but all my battleships will die, except maybe the one nearest Cuneiform. He won't see that one and may overlook it if he only goes for what he can see. 

I kill 3 Cossacks in the south and redline the 4th. I pillage 2 mines, a workshop, and an IZ to finish NF...
   

I start the MP in Thor. It says it will take 15 turns but we can probably get that under 10 turns with some chops, traders, and repairs. I moved Magnus back to Thor and he needs only 4 turns to establish since he left 4 turns ago. I moved Victor to Rodeo. I figure Izumrud is going to fall once Russia takes out my ships and can't really move Pingala, as I would lose too much science. 

I ended up buying a few granaries at Loki, Thor, and Open Government and a sewer at Official Visit. These cities need to grow for maximum production. I sent you my remaining gold and all the coal I had. It probably isn't enough for an upgrade but I should have more for you next turn.

Edit: I am also contemplating building the Ruhr Valley at Official Visit. It would a 22 turn build but if I get the next GE in ~12 turns, that would take a bug chunk out of it. Official Visit has 9 mines currently plus 2 more tiles that can be mined. That would be 11 added production to mines plus +20% to overall production (say 15 more production). That would bring the city close, if not over, 100 production per turn and 8 turn nukes. It might even out produce Thor.

Edit2: We might also want to consider delaying Fascism, if we can. The added production to trade routes from Democracy will help speed up the MP. I think we should maybe see how everything unfolds. One possibility would be to finish the civic but no change governments. Work on the next civic and if I need to, I could buy an emergency policy swap. Thoughts?

[ljubljana]

Holy crap, great results on the battleship combats! He may have a lot of navy left but with just 2 battleships and a sub, he will have a hell of a time making progress against your cities Even Cuneiform should hold out a few turns if that's all he can bring to the party.

I think I like the Ruhr Valley idea, it's a great way to effectively put production into nukes without actually having them unlocked yet, and the city is hard for them to nuke as well. It would also Eureka Flight in case I can't get it finished on time.

Don't know about Fascism, let's see how things unfold. The boost to ship construction will be crucial to help us outmass williams from this point forward. Might be worth eating a 1 turn delay on the MP to get that operational a few turns earlier, loath though I am to accept a slowdown there. Pretty sure either way we should switch all our builds to ships now though, at least other than Ruhr/nuke stuff/military engineers.

[ljubljana]

Actually, I think we are in fairly serious trouble in Australia...



I took 75 damage from the city strike + field cannon corps, and a second field cannon shot will probably kill. So if I attack with everything this turn, I will lose a frigate fleet for sure. Plus the battleship will sail out of the city and attack another with 85 range strength (DoTF), not enough for a one-shot but very nearly so. He will one-shot any single frigates if I leave any of those in range.

Not sure what to do, we are on very tight margins here and I think losing one frigate fleet per turn means the attack will fail... I will have to think about this. Might need to block the other tile at Borodino with a caravel fleet (or sacrifice a caravel) so the battleship can't hit me, and then cross my fingers and hope a 25-health ship can survive another FC attack... Or, I can bait him with single frigates or something and try to get him to take a guaranteed kill on those instead.

edit: Apparently I am not getting the Wars of Religion boost against Australia anymore. I still have it against Russia so it has nothing to do with my empire. Must be because they dropped to less than half their empire following Russia's religion...

So the single field cannon attack against this ship would look something like



43 strength for them vs 55 + 5 (GA) + 3 (diplo) - 2 (emergency) - 7 (damaged unit) = 54 strength for us. They need 25 damage for the kill. Sounds like a high roll but well within the realm of possibility!

[Woden]

It is now or never, you aren't going to get another shot at taking that city. We already let him get better walls and field cannons in the city, plus Russia now has subs and battleships in the area. Don't wait for the perfect attack, it ain't coming. I say attack and rotate out injured ships. Pillage for health where you can. Don't worry about the battleships, Russia won't bring them out until my ships are gone. I assume my destroyer and ICF over by the pillaged IZ will be attacked on Russia's turn. You have a 3 or 4 turns before the subs can get over by TCD (they only have a base MP of 3) and he has to fight my ships before he can fight your ships.

Edit: Also, we don't need to take TCD. We just need to keep Rodeo. I can hi the Russian capital with a silo at Rodeo, or even Illmatic.

[ljubljana]

I guess my question for you is, how many frigates or frigate fleets do you think TCD is worth? I think we can still take the city but it will cost us, probably to the tune of 3 or so frigates/fleets in a frontal assault (1/turn for 3 turns). There is also the "Rodeo treatment" option of sieging down the city with just the Dreadnought for 10 turns at 17 health/turn, then throwing all the ships at it on the last turn to finish off the walls. Or, we can do something in between, attack with a bunch of ships this turn, let him kill one, then go for the Rodeo treatment with what is left.

Either way, I think we should probably regroup and bring our ships together again over the next few turns in preparation for what looks like another major battle with the Russian fleet. We do not want too many of your melee ships to get picked off if we can avoid it, they were our aces in the hole last time.

[Woden]

I guess my question for you is, how many frigates or frigate fleets do you think TCD is worth? I think we can still take the city but it will cost us, probably to the tune of 3 or so frigates/fleets in a frontal assault (1/turn for 3 turns). There is also the "Rodeo treatment" option of sieging down the city with just the Dreadnought for 10 turns at 17 health/turn, then throwing all the ships at it on the last turn to finish off the walls. Or, we can do something in between, attack with a bunch of ships this turn, let him kill one, then go for the Rodeo treatment with what is left.

Either way, I think we should probably regroup and bring our ships together again over the next few turns in preparation for what looks like another major battle with the Russian fleet. We do not want too many of your melee ships to get picked off if we can avoid it, they were our aces in the hole last time.

You could do that but if you do, I suggest sending a few Frigates up to the northern island and remove the walls on that city, then my battleship that is coming to attack the northern city can sail down and help out at TCD.

[ljubljana]

Turn 200 - Phoenicia

In Norway:



I think I took too much of a risk by attacking the Cossack with my P/S corps on the campus. It is possible, if he rolls well, that williams will kill it and get a science pillage next turn. If he does that, though, it will be all he gets and I think my remaining units should clean up on my turn. Still, definitely regretting that decision.



I thought long and hard about this and I think the most important thing to do is not to take TCD as quickly as possible, but rather to not get pushed back here before we have nukes. TCD is not going to speed our victory condition unless taking it unlocks an avenue for nuking Russia (which we have already) or if it eliminates Australia (which we are not really close to doing). So I think it is ok to take 10 turns to capture the city as long as we maintain control of this area, which I think would be jeopardized by charging in now and losing 3-4 of my 7 precious frigates. Walls are at 210/300 now and the Dreadnought is doing 17/turn, roughly, so t210 is about the timeframe we are looking at, maybe sooner once we add your battleship.

I only have one unit that was close enough to hit HWMB next turn, and it is headed up there now. On the turn after, though, my triple and quadruple promoted frigate fleets can come into play, and the walls should not last long after that. Meanwhile, I intend to use these turns to upgrade and heal at Rodeo so my fleet will be as healthy as possible the next time Russia tries to push us back. Sadly I just realized I forgot to accept your deal  but that's ok, as if you send me the same amount of gold next turn I will have plenty for a clad upgrade. Or we can save up for 4 turns and upgrade in the discount policy at Civil Engineering, as long that's not too late for the ICs to be ready in time for the battle.

We are going to have to find a way to semi-permanently wall off the Dreadnought from the battleships in Russia's cities and the new units they will produce, though, which will be difficult without exposing our ships to city fire. We may want to pillage the canal to keep the privateer fleet at Sevastopol out, though that would mean forgoing our chance to kill Russian traders as they walk over that tile. I also think we should bring as many of your melee ships in the area as possible back over this way so they do not get sniped by Russia's new upgraded ships. My fleet is about to become MUCH less capable of standing on its own now that Russia has modern ships in this area, so I am going to need all the help I can get, sadly...

If you are willing to stick melee ships on the tiles W and 2W of TCD, that should cut off their options, but it does mean taking city fire. But I rather suspect that the level of damage that was going to kill 1 frigate/turn if I stayed would be totally nonthreatening to a double-promoted destroyer. It's probably safer for your ships than continuing to block off Borodino indefinitely, at any rate.

edit: Random thought, when we do get a military engineer over here, we should probably keep it embarked off the coast until the turn we want to nuke Russia. They are probably going to hit nukes before us and we do not want them sniping our ME with a pre-emptive nuke...

edit2: If roland exposes the field cannon to frigate attack next turn that changes everything though. Fingers crossed...