[PB63 Spoilers] Ginger and Lazteuq find a way to peace

[Ginger()]

   
Turn 81 is definitely not an early Pyramids, but damn, at second in city count and CY, you'd think I hardly sacrificed at all   

bottom power? what's that you say? GNP in the shitter, nahhhh
Unfortunately, that's about all the jerking I'll get to enjoy because I really have no clue what to do next. Didn't think I'd get this far. 
Full update going city by city coming in a few minutes.

[Ginger()]

Turn 81   

Econ before and after new city. It is less favorable than it looks because I swapped some citizens to work lake tiles in between the photos. 
       


City by city overview: 
   
The current plan is to grow onto cottages and eventually whip a library when it runs out of tiles. It's awkward timing the capital's whips because the overlapping cities need the food sources too, and I don't want to leave the cottages unworked. Each turn unworked is equivalent to not working a 5C tile, given the maturation mechanic.

   
Our second city, settled immediately for copper, which slowed down our early game significantly. Just finished the Pyramids and now suffers an identity crisis. With granary, spare pop, I would like to whip out some settlers for the remaining two eastward expansion spots (see strategy section below). However it doesn't quite have the food to accomplish that without eating into the capital's bananas or poor little Arpinum's deer. Currently it's future is what I'm most uncertain about.

   
Our third city has been stuck in an unfortunate vicious cycle of 4->2 settler whips because it doesn't have the spare happy to unlock 6->3 like the capital did.

   
Rich city settled to work river cottages and silver, plan is to whip a library and work cottages + scientist. 

   
Slowed down by the production of our latest settler, it finally finished its granary last turn at 50% food bar and is kicking back into action. Needs to make Galley +2 WBs for the eastern marches to claim Mare Nostrum. 

   
The Stone is found on only one island in the known empire, a fief granted to House Arretium. Currently working the plains cottage because it is actually a 2 hammer tile given 50% wonder resource bonus. It will whip the Lighthouse at size 4, but I otherwise don't see much wisdom in stacking whip anger in a future Moai city. Needs a defensive unit/mp. 

   
This city is propped up right against Mjmd's horse city and is in a bit of an identity crisis at the moment, lacking good tiles and mainly a unit pump? or maybe it will just work Rep citizens? or maybe whip a library to take second ring culture from Mjmd? Dunnow what to do. It's not a good spot for a library but if it does build one it will cover the lake and save Cumae the trouble of needing a border pop.

   
Cottage helper city that got a fast granary via chop. not a lot of future potential here, it just exists, and its purpose is to pass butter. it might give Antium the deer and steal Neapolis's pigs so that Neap can work it's cottages and this puppy can grow a little.

[Edit: No photo of last city, attachment limit reached]
The newest addition, deer camp comes online next turn, monument is first priority to claim fish, will probably chop a granary in then do some math on whether it slow builds with the 5hpt or 1 pop whips it to completion. Mental note for Cumae (the whipping boy), to crank out a workboat in 14 turns. Long term I'm not sure what this city is, maybe two rep scientists and another whip post? lots of food with fish and Oasis farms, nice 5hpt base production, but not much more hammers or commerce. Crossing fingers iron spawns near here.

[Ginger()]

Strategy and Decisions
   
   

Not sure what to do about the brown riverland between me and Mjmd. There's definitely room for a filler but the cost of defending it is probably higher than the payoff. The further forward I put it, the better a city it is, and higher the cost of defending it (see wheat). I plan to take Renzo eventually, and having a plant on that plains hill would be a nice commanding position with 50% tile defense from just hill and river. Unfortunately there is jack in the way of food nearby and costs are soaring. I don't think plains river farm cities are terrible, but they are certainly slow. I also doubt I'll have Serfdom before Bureaucracy in all honesty given my wonders and tech priorities. However, there are at least 3 forests I'd be leaving unclaimed.
My instinct is to let this area be, the cost will not pay off before the time of sword, not settler deciding who gets it. 

In the east the plan to contain the marble sea proceeds apace, with a special priority on securing the crabs/cow city. Unfortunately, I lack the following:
A) the military to settle up on top-power Fabled
B) the worker labor to road and improve cows
C) the food/production in Neapolis to premake the workboat(s) and galley (for the Marble island itself). 
D) the actual settlers are these important?


That last one is causing me the headache at Antium, because I want that city to grow, it has cold production tiles to work, and will eventually have to work the silver and grow some cottages for the capital, none of which is conducive to the efficient settler production of 3-pop whipping. I could just cold build a settler for 6 turns but that also stops growth. I could have it easily solve problem A and grow while cranking military, but would still need to steal either Nanas from the Cap or Deer from Arpinum and drop a plains mine in order to grow in 3 instead of the current 8! turns to size 6. 

Not to even get started on the GPP kerfuffle. Engineers are Da Best™ but I honestly might just want that academy before, oh, idk, turn 107? In which case, perhaps the best course would be to actually build a library and run the specialists in Antium to generate a fractional chance at engineer while enabling full scientist hiring for the beakers elsewhere?
option A (wait for Engy):
Engy(100) Scientist (106/107) Scientist (114) ... 

option B (6turn Great Wall right now):
Engy/Spy(t93) Sci (99/100), Sci (107)...  (65% chance of Engy vs Spy)

option C (build Library in Antium):
Engy/Sci (~90), Sci (~97) ....           (~20% Engineer chance)

The key points are the timing of the first scientist (academy) and the ability to run more than just one scientist in each city before t100. The math to prevent premature GPP birth is that I can run one 6beaker rep specialist for 13 turns or two of them for only 6 turns, before having to wait for the turn 100 deadline. That's a total extraction of only ~90 beakers from each Library (aside from commerce modification). I can also just run rep citizens alongside, with an extra helping of tears. 

How important is the engineer? Is it worth a 16 turn delay on that Academy and hoop jumping just to get a more versatile GPP type? Tbh academy delay isn't a big hoot with binary research available. But I could probably just get to Currency faster if I threw the Engy out a window, and each turn without that blessed second trade route is bleeding my coffers. Speaking of trade routes, it's an absolute crime that GLH hasn't fallen yet on this map. If SD gets it, he's the heavy favorite in my betting books; Jack's demos aren't looking too hot against SD's. I also realized the changes in the mod make the Machinery tech path even more attractive now that Optics is currency lite.

[Miguelito]

Congratulations on the Pyramids!

You posted Arpinium twice though.

[Ginger()]

Congratulations on the Pyramids!

You posted Arpinium twice though.

ah okay I've edited it out, was running into the limit of attachments per post
   

here is the last city

[Miguelito]

Ok, but that were still only nine, and I think you have a fur island city somewhere yet ?

[Ginger()]

Ok, but that were still only nine,  and I think you have a fur island city somewhere yet ?

*Head hanging in shame* 
Here ya go

   

So many cities, I lose count. I didn't really grok how impactful a trait like Organized would be (it surpassed Pro about 10 turns ago, and this is a tailor-made map for Pro with islands and everyone on the same continent), because I've never been at 10 cities at turn 81 in a singleplayer game, or at least, if I was, I couldn't care less what my maintenance was because the game was already won at that point. Org was always a win-more mechanic in that respect for me. What I'm really curious to see is how my numbers for CtH FIN turn out, because theoretically it becomes as strong as the old version over time, and I'm wondering if I blundered by ignoring it this game. In the end I chose Gandhi because he's familiar, my favorite from restricted leaders BtS. Spiritual is good with Pyramids, but I had to make it good by getting the mids, oh well, I've caught myself whining again. Bad Ginger! 

What's really on my mind is whether I should go ham with as many scientists as possible for Currency or if I should wait for the engineer. I think that Calendar before Currency is definitely a folly. And I think that a math bulb is numerically wasteful, but it's beakers I need, on a time sensitive tech path, from a great person type that I'll have too many of. Arghhghgh. Maybe I can build Hanging Gardens and run and engineer in Anitium to have it eventually produce something? I don't want to bet on the gardens given Mehmed, and Surry have reached Writing before me and are sporting superior GNPs. 
I've decided against Great Wall, production is needed for units civilian and military. I guess I just have to see how many scientists I actually have the food and lack-of-cottages to run.

[Ginger()]

This turn (82) was uneventful, still no revolt, canceled OB with Cornflakes because I, for whatever reason, wasn't getting island trade routes from him (he has fur and I saw a Galley), some piece of coast or river was not properly defogged.
Edit: after I logged in again to move a scout, I noticed that Cornflakes has Currency   Well never letting a good crisis go to waste, I offered him OB for 2 gpt, see if he bites. My export import rose by 3 from -15 to -12 when I closed borders and I will found another island city t85, so seems fair to me, although he might not see it that way. 
Declined OB from Superdeath for the same reason, not in the business of giving free cash unless he wants to share Pindi's coast with me? Haha jk, unless... Sent OB to Mjmd because he has at least 3 island cities. (He founded an 11th too, and I can't sus out its location for the life of me). I whipped a settler for the second fur city, set up 2 libraries for whips next turn; whipping libraries sucks but they gotta be built eventually, and better whip 6->3 or 7->4 than when the city is more matured. Still struggling on whether to whip Antium 6->3 for the next settler. Math and general efficiency says yes, but my instincts say no, especially because it will have to compete with other growing cities (Rome/Arpinum) for the 4F tiles. Maybe I'll use a spreadsheet, TIHI. 

Here's a general strategy question global lurkers might be able to answer. On a scale of Never to It's-Fine, how do you usually feel about non-Cre library whipping? Its common practice in single player, but the growth/tech curves are much different here.

Alright I did some literal napkin math and came to the following conclusions. If I want to bulb Math I can probably complete HG by turn 105 with some effort and pop out the Engineer t112, with the Academy t119. The benefits are a straight injection of 390 beakers, plus slightly looser restrictions on how many scientists we can run, with maybe an additional 200 commerce from earlier Currency (this is handwavy, margin of error I'd guess +/-50%).
This plan would dump spare Rep beakers into Iron Working, then turn tech on after math for Currency.

For reference the current plan (t100 Engineer, t107 Academy, t114 Golden Age?) is to plug away at Math (better use of the rep beakers), then either save gold for the post-turn 107 academy burn, or, depending how things look at that point, could blitz to Currency ahead of the academy (doubt our finances will be that good *WISH I WAS ORG*)

The Pickle:
Cornflakes' emancipated paradise is at 100 GNP and is definitely the one giving us Math in KTB, plus he probably is looking to make some kind of food/mfg gain from his GNP. I expect him to make a run at the gardens, though he will need to delay it until after cities are settled. 105 might be fast enough on my end, might not. OTOH maybe I should go for a contested wonder to swipe it out from under him. One only needs to look at the current date and unfallen Oracle/GLH to see how dangerous noncontention is.
However, given that Math Bulb Plan really bellyflops if HG falls, I'm inclined to go for the less variance but slower development of the original slow roll of GPP. I can still try for HG but it would be around t108-t110 (yuck).

Mechanics questions, because that seems the best way to get some interaction in here
What is the order in which GP are birthed from two cities if both hit the GPP threshold same EoT?
Will having a new pop growth potentially get hired as a specialist accidentally screw me? I ask because the GPP from the Pyramids wonder was processed after production and the wonder was built.
Not mechanics per se but pitboss related, can I get a sequential turn processing when I want to use my GE? I don't mind being last to process, I just would *hate* if I spent a GE for a pile of failgold. (I recognize that asking for this and the public processing of it brings meta issues beyond its irregularity like people whipping wonders once given the notice, but maybe there is a better workaround)

[Tarkeel]

I had some edit-kerfuffles, but here goes:

Here's a general strategy question global lurkers might be able to answer. On a scale of Never to It's-Fine, how do you usually feel about non-Cre library whipping? Its common practice in single player, but the growth/tech curves are much different here.

In the cities that benefit the most from libraries you usually don't have the hammers to slow-build them; just have to make sure it's worth the pop-cost. We had a weird setup in PB62 where we'd let some of the core cities grow into unhappy to whip it into libraries.

Mechanics questions, because that seems the best way to get some interaction in here
What is the order in which GP are birthed from two cities if both hit the GPP threshold same EoT?
Will having a new pop growth potentially get hired as a specialist accidentally screw me? I ask because the GPP from the Pyramids wonder was processed after production and the wonder was built.

Cities are processed in order, which is the same as F1 list or swapping between cities. Barring conquests it's the order they are founded. I think it's possible for a newly birthed specialist to screw you, but you can also block specialists in the latest version of CtH.

Not mechanics per se but pitboss related, can I get a sequential turn processing when I want to use my GE? I don't mind being last to process, I just would *hate* if I spent a GE for a pile of failgold. (I recognize that asking for this and the public processing of it brings meta issues beyond its irregularity like people whipping wonders once given the notice, but maybe there is a better workaround)

I think the short answer here is "No".

[civac2]

I don't think the specialist screw is possible at all, certainly not before your city runs out of workable tiles.

Libraries often have pretty low value early on in these PB games because you will be at 20% research max (at least I play like that, some do not). That's worse than working the couple more cottages you whipped away to get the library. However, once you are out of the immediate expansion phase whipping libraries in your commerce cities is a good idea. Earlier libraries to get a fast scientist or culture at some key point are also feasible.

Be careful with REP scientists. Ignoring the GPP they are equivalent to desert incense, not a good tile. Using them to rush key techs is viable but every one of them inhibits the growth of your cities and the development of your cottages. Working more cottages with the REP happiness is often better.