[PB59 Amicalola] The Vespertine Hour(s)

[Mr. Cairo]

GG Cairo! It's crazy to think that 100 turns ago I was worried that you were going to be the one killing me. Did you consider attacking me instead of Nauf back then, or was I being paranoid about nothing?

I had notions of just rolling through Nauf and into you, but I took too long capturing Nauf's cities. If I had realized that Nauf was running away to those islands I probably would have. The other time I might have attacked you (after I got Tanks but you hadn't yet got bombers and were mostly busy attacking overseas), I was on holiday visiting my parents, so I didn't really have the time . After that I was just so far behind in tech and lacked the time and motivation to just try and game-ruin you.

I honestly have no idea how you're doing this, I wasn't looking forward to playing my turns this game at all the last couple of months, and I didn't really do much. But you've got 4-5 times as many cities as I ever had and are actively conquering everyone, it's very impressive.

[naufragar]

Once upon a time, Naufragar was my biggest problem, and before that there was the worry was that Pindicator had completely knocked me out of contention! I've said it a few times, but I kind of miss those days. It was a simpler time.

I demand to be carried to victory in the belly of the eventual winner.

Edit: And, as others have said, excellently and industriously played!

[Amicalola]

I had notions of just rolling through Nauf and into you, but I took too long capturing Nauf's cities. If I had realized that Nauf was running away to those islands I probably would have. The other time I might have attacked you (after I got Tanks but you hadn't yet got bombers and were mostly busy attacking overseas), I was on holiday visiting my parents, so I didn't really have the time  . After that I was just so far behind in tech and lacked the time and motivation to just try and game-ruin you.

I honestly have no idea how you're doing this, I wasn't looking forward to playing my turns this game at all the last couple of months, and I didn't really do much. But you've got 4-5 times as many cities as I ever had and are actively conquering everyone, it's very impressive. 

That's really interesting, those are the two main times I thought you were going to attack me as well (excluding earlier, back when you first took over). Good to know I wasn't crazy, I guess! I especially tried not to push on Nauf at all during your war because I was really worried that you'd whack my stack at the first opportunity. I wonder how differently things would have turned out if you hadn't been on holiday later on...

Thanks! The wacky nature of my civ helps a lot. I feel like I'm never going to play anything like this again, so I should try to savour it while I can. I'm very invested in this game because of the scope, as well; it's interesting being part of a wider world. I think the lurker comments have also been a big incentive, it's nice to know people are reading and enjoying the thread. Speaking of which...

I demand to be carried to victory in the belly of the eventual winner.

Edit: And, as others have said, excellently and industriously played!

Nice to see you're still reading/around, Nauf! And thanks, I appreciate it. I'll do my best, Cursed Enemy.

Thank you that was the screen I wanted.

How many cities and how much population do you have?

Cities is 185, which will (hopefully) be roughly stable for a few turns. Of those, slightly under 50 are in resistance. Population I can check properly next turn, but at a guess of Size7 average across the empire, maybe about 1300? Again, a lot of that is in resistance though.

The continent I attack, whichever it is, will probably have a lot of razed and refounding cities to circumvent resistance and pop borders ASAP. So with those at very low pop, it will be really interesting trying to get my population above 50%. The good thing is that at low sizes (<10-ish), Cereal cities are guaranteed to grow every turn regardless of tiles. And weirdly, the % for domination is linear, instead of using the demographics reading (Mig's demographics population is much higher than mine, for some reason ). Which is definitely better for the kind of Empire I'm running.

Someone who knows Something about maths can correct me, but if I'm trying to hit a percentage of population it's my mean score I care about, right? As opposed to the median score.

[superdeath]

The mid-late game is probably my favorite. The vast empires, crazy amounts of management. The tech from Rifles-tanks. . .


I love all that. Until it gets past tanks. So, WW2 is my stopping point in the "fun-ville" Its usually the point in single player where i have either already won, or lost interest in playing any longer.

I wish you luck in getting an ACTUAL victory condition here.

[Amicalola]

The mid-late game is probably my favorite. The vast empires, crazy amounts of management. The tech from Rifles-tanks. . .

Interesting. Do you think the novelty has a big impact on your enjoyment of that era? I'd be curious to hear other people's thought on this too.

I think my favourite part of Civ4 games is the mid-late Classical era, like T90-T130. The period that PB63 is entering now. I love how there's so many huge improvements for the empire then, like Currency, Forges, Courthouses, etc. I also like the challenge of efficiency in that era - it's right at the sweet spot where there's so many choices, and simming isn't viable anymore, so everyone has to figure things out on the fly. More rewarding for me than the early game where simming rules, or the late game (at least here) where I am just forced to have lots of inefficiencies/mistakes for time's sake.

[Ginger()]

The mid-late game is probably my favorite. The vast empires, crazy amounts of management. The tech from Rifles-tanks. . .

Interesting. Do you think the novelty has a big impact on your enjoyment of that era? I'd be curious to hear other people's thought on this too.

I think my favourite part of Civ4 games is the mid-late Classical era, like T90-T130. The period that PB63 is entering now. I love how there's so many huge improvements for the empire then, like Currency, Forges, Courthouses, etc. I also like the challenge of efficiency in that era - it's right at the sweet spot where there's so many choices, and simming isn't viable anymore, so everyone has to figure things out on the fly. More rewarding for me than the early game where simming rules, or the late game (at least here) where I am just forced to have lots of inefficiencies/mistakes for time's sake.

 I'll add that one of the things I love about ancient/early classical pre turn 90(other than the miraculous joys of worker micro) is the wonders. They're all very powerful but also are a huge investment at an early stage of the snowball. You have the option of making these high-payoff wagers with wonder building. Later in the game it becomes a question of tech-gating, in the early game it's a big dilemma of production cost and risk too.

[thestick]

Yes, you should care about mean pop more than median. What you really care about is your total pop (or reducing your rivals' pop), but the average is more closely related to the total than the median.

Also, this has been an absolutely incredible game. I hope that you are still enjoying it.

[Amicalola]

I'll add that one of the things I love about ancient/early classical pre turn 90(other than the miraculous joys of worker micro) is the wonders. They're all very powerful but also are a huge investment at an early stage of the snowball. You have the option of making these high-payoff wagers with wonder building. Later in the game it becomes a question of tech-gating, in the early game it's a big dilemma of production cost and risk too.

That's a really good point, I totally agree that wonder balance works more as-intended for the Classical and especially Ancient eras than the rest of the game. Like here, Stonehenge and GLH were quite risky investments that put me way behind in expansion early on (my pre-T75 demos were quite pathetic), but the risk paid off and I think those two wonders carried me eventually.



Compared with Kremlin here, where I just got the tech before others, and IND only saved me a couple hundred hammers. And then there's the 'bad' wonders like Notre Dame (try telling my citizens that Notre Dame is bad ), where it's just 'whoever can be bothered' gets the wonder. The Stonehenge/GLH-type decision is much more interesting, completely agree.

I think my problem with pre-90 worker micro (really more like pre-60) is that when everything is simmed, I lose interest so quickly. But when it's on the fly, I can spend ages just plotting some super trivial worker movements, or tile swaps, or missionary micro(!). I dunno why, maybe it's just a personal thing. I don't think I'll ever be as good at those early turns as someone like Mjmd (e.g. early in this thread there are a few awkward worker-micro mistakes), but I can compete once simming becomes unviable for the people who excel at it. 

Yes, you should care about mean pop more than median. What you really care about is your total pop (or reducing your rivals' pop), but the average is more closely related to the total than the median.

Also, this has been an absolutely incredible game. I hope that you are still enjoying it.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought but I wanted to double-check. Sometimes I feel like an outlier on RB for not specialising in Maths/Coding.   Reducing rivals' pop is something I've been thinking about recently; I need to figure out how much pop a tactical nuke or an ICBM kills with one hit. I'm sure there's a thread with the information somewhere, or worst-case I can just sim it. It may or may not be worth building a 'Kill Civilians' stockpile for the final turn, if that ends up being the best way to get over the population requirement (could be a suitable way to end Charriu's game...). But it depends on whether the whipped population is more or less than the population killed with a hit. This all assumes we actually take a third continent, obviously.

And yeah, the game is still enjoyable. A turn every two days was too much, but every three days is a lot more manageable. It also gives me more time to think while not playing, which is nice.

[superdeath]

but I can compete once simming becomes unviable for the people who excel at it. 

This is me.

[Ginger()]

It may or may not be worth building a 'Kill Civilians' stockpile for the final turn, if that ends up being the best way to get over the population requirement (could be a suitable way to end Charriu's game...). But it depends on whether the whipped population is more or less than the population killed with a hit.

Jesus Christ  

Can you post a scroll-down of your military advisor screen for us to ogle?