[PB63 Spoilers] Ginger and Lazteuq find a way to peace

[Ginger()]

That's not what I meant, just that the numbers of cities in singleplayer are lower, and the ration of a cottage capital's GNP to Singleplayer is definitely less dynamic in that with enough experience it feels like solving a puzzle, where you turn up the difficulty or play worse land or worse civs. Diety is very hard so it remains interesting throughout the game.
But yes it's nowhere near as dynamic as a multiplayer game like this where everyone gets very strong land and starts off on the same footing and are not bots


I was going to do a turn 98 report because when CF accepted my loan request (primarily sent for security, I'm betting a creditor won't DOW) I looked at the numbers again and hired several citizens to end up getting Currency a turn early at the cost of delaying HG, but I'm just too worn out from doing math for my granary timing and Settler planning to write a report. I am now producing something like 57 gpt and 45 bpt at 0%, including a -8 foreign trade deficit (+4 Bing, -12 CF), so things are looking good. I hope that my settler whips will be enough to shrink my demographics, but if I get my 15 city Hanging Gardens, I think it's straight to 5 turns of Police State, very worried about getting carried away with economic development and getting slapped around.

Need to get the settlers in before HG which is a challenge and collect the available units to defend the new plants, which are rather exposed (like walls/monument-before-granary exposed). One of them is going to be directly in Mjmd's face 3 tiles from his city Renzo... so... interesting times ahead. However, it is a hill with river defense, so I don't feel too worried short term. Medium term there might be consequences for what could be seen as a provocation.

Edit: After *checks PBSPY* an agonizing 2 hours of counting and recounting turns and move plans to make sure to settle, I realize that I have to settle everything the turn BEFORE Hanging Gardens is built So due to delays in settler production I actually have to delay the build by a turn, so it falls EoT 104 not 103, this saves me a chop for a new city, which is pretty nice, but I'm going to positively lose it if I miss HG by a turn or a coinflip, So far, I see no aqueducts but mine, but both SD and CF are in a Golden Age and presumably have chops. I'm also going to lose it if CF uses his canal to settle the marble island between us. The instinct is to default on my debt if that happens, but I wonder if that is actually a good move worth his wrath and not just tilt speaking. Also I should get Iron Working t101. Currency is the best world wonder.

[Ginger()]

For the next 6 turns I’m going to clench when opening the turn to see if CF plants the marble island or if someone swipes Hanging Gardens. I wonder if it’s worth delaying it for 2 population, but I’ve committed now.

I’ve sent my chariot through Fabled’s lands to scout, no Hammans have appeared yet, but I have found a lot, and I mean A LOT of roads. Like every floodplain and at least one desert hill roaded. Metric, gigatons of roads. 

I wonder if I should start sending war with Mjmd diplo to Bing with specific timings in gold#s attached. Bing just whipped a market in his lake city and I worry he’s aiming too long for my liking (what is he thinking, Guilds? I need to get inside his head to make this work). I have Iron Working in two turns, so I wonder if I should be aiming for a Police State swap the turn HG lands to whip away excess pop. Maybe eta 10-15turns to a declaration of war? Maybe that’s too ambitious. The problem is nothing about this plan is fast, not the build up nor the execution with one movers, so the stack needs to be overwhelming. Maybe I’m better off with Horchers, but that feels like an extra two techs. I’m building about 5 Chariots to be able to prevent completely empty cities. I worry this will be an epic flop like AT’s attack on Tarkeel in 58. With no prior experience warring in this format, I’m resorting to consulting ‘the literature’.

I’m using an interesting syllogism to try and figure out how I want to use my Engineer. I believe I’d rather have the 1k beakers than the 300 hammers, so I would prefer to slow build MoM if I could. However I’d rather have 300 hammers into Praetorians, so MoM isn’t worth slowbuilding. Of course the real value of an Engineer is to secure a wonder from competition, and this doesn’t take into account the value of denying it to someone else, which might actually be a pretty big concern.

[Ginger()]

So I had some micro plans change and some pictures to post the last couple turns but, feeling that I've fallen into an old personal habit of rambling I decided not to post every thought that crosses my head, at least for concision's sake. It's just as well that I didn't post my 15 city HG plans coming in EOT 103, because Mjmd snagged it EOT 100. I noticed his Aqueduct pop up turn 99, but figured I would have some more time as he had no chops and less production than Antium (yes, I calculated forge bonus). He must've set up an overflow chain, well kudos to him. After whipping away 13 pop in two turns to A) suppress my demos so I look less threatening and B) get 3 new cities, I'm just shy of breaking 200 CY, but my lead has shrank significantly. 

I've been thinking about what I want going forward, and It's just been really hard to decide. Calendar significantly helps one new city and opens the possibility of a 16th around the Banana in the land bridge, but Metal Casting makes me safe at sea and opens the Machinery bulb for Crossbows of my own. 

The problem is that for that city on the land bridge to be worth a damn, I have to pry Renzo from Mjmd's hands. And as much as I might like to delude myself, I don't think Mjmd would be up for a quick one city war with forgiveness and forgetness. And where is my ostensible ally Bing in all of this?

I sent him war in ten turns last turn and he replied war in 12 turns   I think he has "Just One More Tech" Syndrome. I see both of their GPT when they turn slider down, and unless Bing is seriously sandbagging, Mjmd is outteching him cleanly (yes Bing has better modifiers with CRE library spam, but Mjmd has higher potential with CY and MFG). I have half their GPT and am only afloat because Rep specialists. Arghhh.

Lazteuq if you're still around can you take a look around, check the dotmap to see if you think that extra city site (and boost to existing) is worth Calendar, or whether I should hightail it to Metal Casting/Machinery? Planning to swap to Police state turn 105, crank out 10-15 praets, some follow-up Cats and just go. Maybe these new cities are a diversion, I was just optimistic about HG and now I have the settlers. Turns out Crossbows aren't that big of a threat to Praets if I do as little as put them on a hill, but some of my own would be nice.

[Ginger()]

I realized my problem and stress comes from being spoiled for choice. Which tech do I bulb or wonder to get? Late academy in the cap or earlier golden age? Spread religion and Forges/Courts or hammer now? Etc etc.
I’ve decided to do something I usually hate, I’m going to hedge. Chase two rabbits and lose them both as Leonard would say.

I’m going to tech to Calendar for MoM and happiness, I don’t have an immediate use for Machinery and don’t have enough juice to squeeze out Engineering (which I would have immediate use for), so long term benefit of the wonder it is. I’m going to build my army in 5 turns of police state, using the power spike to put pressure on Mjmd. Force some whips, slow his Guilds beeline. Unless he carelessly disrespects the threat I have a very minimal objective for the war, secure Renzo, then peace out maybe with a bit of gold as a bribe. This consolidates my eastern border and allows me the squeeze in a 16th city SE of Renzo safely. By the time whipping is done and army assembled I will have the happy from Calendar and later Metal Casting to regrow, and I’ll throw a golden age 114, that should see me through most of forges, courts, etc.

[Tarkeel]

I worry this will be an epic flop like AT’s attack on Tarkeel in 58. With no prior experience warring in this format, I’m resorting to consulting ‘the literature’.

I sugges you re-read that war, as it was very close to not being a flop. The sallying forces arrived just in time to save Mon Calamari, so if he hadn't stopped to heal at Endor he would have broken through.

[Ginger()]

May God have mercy on us, because Cornflakes won't.
He's done a classic single player opening beelining Bureacracy, and should have the tech lead for the forseeable future. There was really no way for Fabled to punish that with Boudicca of Egypt defending, and now this is the situation.
My response:  ... I sent fish for fish. The fewer Maces I see, the happier I'll be. 
(with a bonus cherry-on-top of Confucian conversion). Hey if it works to get the AI to like you...   Certified Spiritual Classic.

Bing whipped a second Market   (as ORG with GLH, how fucking low can your slider be?) and Mjmd whipped 2 more forges. So the window is now. It's very much   or be   in 20 turns. I say that and I'm still researching Calendar, well Police State is going to wreck my happy and I want to be settling new cities, which requires Banana tech. Charriu I think you should move Bananas to Genetics, too easy to utilize at Calendar, just another overpowered tile like Whales.
 Speaking of new cities, here are some photos for you lovely lurkers:
   
Should be clear why Renzo must go, and that is the minimum goal to achieve in the next 15 turns. 

Some demos if you guys like that sort of thing. I won't do city overviews because it will break my heart, they're very shortly about to be much less pretty, and much more whippy. 

       

[El Grillo]

Best of luck with the plans!

[Ginger()]

Glad(?) I caught this PM from Mjmd before I was about to sign in again.
>Please do not log in again this turn.
So wut? Is this a wardec? Split next turn?
I’m annoyed I can’t stare at my tiles for another hour, but inclined to respect it but it can’t exactly be a settler race because I moved to a hill and lack further movements. well the only city that could be vulnerable is my northern fur city.
It’s actually rather important that I sign in again because I’m within single digit margin of error for EOT tech completion and OB cancellation of any kind would seriously fuck up my micro. I can promise not to change production or move units if that satisfies him but I WILL sign in again in the morning to see if I need another Rep Citizen. In fact I think it’s easiest if I just tell him something to that effect.
-End technical question-

From a metagaming perspective he cannot be pleased by my settler movement, but I’m arsed if I have half a clue what he could possibly not want me to log in for? Since he’s probably not going to double move me next turn, he must want me not to swap production or move units in response to him. Well the only vulnerable city would be the northern fur one, by boat. Problematic but not game breaking. At any rate looks like I have good sense of when I’ll be needing Military. Police State swap will proceed as previously planned in two turns. Let’s see what his answer to 36 Hammer 8str is.

Edit for Transparency, this was my reply:
> Is this some subtle way of announcing a war dec or are you trying to establish a peace time split?
If it makes you feel better I won’t be moving units or changing build queues, but I have planned (Before this PM) to log in in the morning before Fabled rolls to adjust my tile micro.

Second Edit:
As promised I logged in this morning to adjust my city micro, moved no units, changed no production. If Mjmd has a problem with me changing my tiles before production/tech is rolled he can stuff it*. When possible outside of war, a pitboss should mirror the mechanics of a sequentially processing game. That includes reactions to OB and resource trade cancellation.
*I’ll be honest I can’t find where in the rules you’re allowed to just declare a peace split by PM. If he’s not happy with the very reasonable compromise I offered him in my message and I’m getting punished for playing quickly, I can always play slower in the future.

[Tarkeel]

Just a heads up, when you edit a post it will not show as unread for those who have read it before. Your second edit would have been better off as a new post to make it stand out, as it was several hours after the original.

[civac2]

*I’ll be honest I can’t find where in the rules you’re allowed to just declare a peace split by PM. If he’s not happy with the very reasonable compromise I offered him in my message and I’m getting punished for playing quickly, I can always play slower in the future.

You probably can't, only for stuff like settling races and goody huts back in the day. The rules on RB tend to be a bit vague, though.