[PB59 Amicalola] The Vespertine Hour(s)

[Amicalola]

I remember when Civ 4 came out and Firaxis made a promotional video of a meeting of Civ Anonymous. I found it cringey at the time, since it was showing people who had suffered serious consequences in their lives because of playing too much civ, who were then sitting around chanting "one more turn." I sometimes feel as though these Civ boards are the sort of enabling as I read about with, say, pro-anorexia groups: someone posts a picture where they are unhealthily underweight and people respond with "you look great! Keep it up!" To be good at Civ, you have to have at least a somewhat obsessive personality, willing to devote your time and energy to wringing out the last hammers and beakers from every turn.

Also, the lurkers can be like the crowd at a gladiator combat: as the combatants are hacking each other to death, the viewer says to his neighbor, "the swordsman should have parried in quarte, and the guy with the net should have feinted to the left and thrown to the right."

Good luck to you in your personal life, Amicalola, I hope this works out for you. You don't owe the strangers on this board any more of your time.

I'm going to second this. Letting a game end because it's consuming players' lives is a good thing. I do not for one second regret when I pushed for an early end to a Pitboss.

Thanks guys, I appreciate that. I think your first paragraph was really thought-provoking Dave. The Civ Anonymous thing is where I feel I was starting to head towards, and I agree that's it's not healthy. The anorexia-enabling comparison is really interesting too. My personality is definitely quite obsessive in general, and clearly with civ. That's fine with smaller games, but with this one it meant I wasn't capable of letting the little things go. Which paradoxically is probably both how I got into the winning position, and why I had to put it down at the same time.

I'll be honest, I've felt an astonishing amount of relief at my newfound freedom. The regret is already mostly gone.

Believe me, I understand your situation since I've been in the exact same position and I completely agree that you're making the correct decision. I deliberately stepped away from taking part in Civ4 Pitboss/PBEM games because they inevitably took over my life in an unhealthy way. My personality just does not allow me to play these games in casual fashion, I always get sucked in until I'm spending hours each day planning and playing and reporting each turn. That was fine as a college student a decade or two ago but it's not sustainable any longer; I'm not sure if it was a good idea back in the day either. The Pitboss #2 game from the early days of Realms Beyond MP might make for a great read in retrospect but everyone involved took it way too seriously and I wasn't in a healthy place mentally for much of that span. More recently, I walked away from a near-certain victory in the Civ6 PBEM7 game where we very likely would have won the game if I had kept playing the turns for another month or so. However, it was the right decision at the time and I don't have any regrets about offering the other teams a draw. I was moving into a new house and planning a wedding and absolutely did not have the time to devote multiple hours per day to running turns in a Civilization game. I felt immense relief at stepping away from the game and that was the sign that I was making the correct decision.

So no, you shouldn't feel bad about ending this game where it stands now. I'm shocked that you were able to run an empire with 180 cities for as long as you did. I hope that you enjoyed the wild ride while it lasted, can look back at it with fond memories, and shouldn't need to feel any guilt at calling it quits. Time some time off, relax, and get back to a healthier mental space. Thanks again so much to you and the other competitors in this game for providing us with amazing reading material over the last year.

I really appreciate that, it means a lot coming from you. I felt a lot of guilt over the first day or two, as my posts kind of suggested. But I've already had the time to fix some of my more surface-level issues over the past few days, and the guilt has almost evaporated already. I really think this was the right decision now that I've had a few days to think it over. And hey, now I'll definitely have time for the Fantasy Draft.

Congrats man! You absolutely made the right decision. You know I've been right there in that place too and obviously it's one of the reasons I'm not playing any games right now. I'm just so happy the map got an epic story played out over it. Just fantastic! 

Appreciate it from you too. The map was really interesting in many ways, and I could tell a shitload of work was put into it. I'm glad it lived up to your expectations, even if we couldn't quite finish it.


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I don't think I'm done entirely with Pitboss games, because it's a fun hobby when it's only an hour or two a day. But yeah, I don't think I'll join another big one. The ecosystem thing is cool, but either you die halfway through, or the game becomes a chore, which feels kind of lose-lose. Smaller games though? Maybe in a few months, once my life starts getting back together. In the meantime, I'm content to do some general lurking and enjoy other players' exploits for a while.

[superdeath]

I don't think I'm done entirely with Pitboss games, because it's a fun hobby when it's only an hour or two a day. But yeah, I don't think I'll join another big one. The ecosystem thing is cool, but either you die halfway through, or the game becomes a chore, which feels kind of lose-lose. Smaller games though? Maybe in a few months, once my life starts getting back together. In the meantime, I'm content to do some general lurking and enjoy other players' exploits for a while.

Could always team up with someone....

[Amicalola]

Could always team up with someone....

To be honest, I think I'm just not that into dedlurking. I either zone out, lose track of the game and feel like a jerk (e.g. PB63), or I get quite into it with micro and logging in, and worry I'm taking over the main player's game (e.g. PB58). In the former case, I might as well generally lurk - then I can read/comment on more people's threads. And in the latter case, I might as well just sign up for the game myself and avoid the anxiety.

I dunno, I'd give it more tries but so far it doesn't seem to be for me. Maybe it's that obsessive thing I was talking about. It does make me wish the RB rules on general lurker etiquette were a little less strict, but I think I'm in the minority there so I won't push on it.

[civac2]

Smaller PB games work much better. Would be a shame to not see you play another pitboss.

[RefSteel]

I remember when Civ 4 came out and Firaxis made a promotional video of a meeting of Civ Anonymous. I found it cringey at the time, since it was showing people who had suffered serious consequences in their lives because of playing too much civ, who were then sitting around chanting "one more turn." I sometimes feel as though these Civ boards are the sort of enabling as I read about with, say, pro-anorexia groups: someone posts a picture where they are unhealthily underweight and people respond with "you look great! Keep it up!" To be good at Civ, you have to have at least a somewhat obsessive personality, willing to devote your time and energy to wringing out the last hammers and beakers from every turn.

Also, the lurkers can be like the crowd at a gladiator combat: as the combatants are hacking each other to death, the viewer says to his neighbor, "the swordsman should have parried in quarte, and the guy with the net should have feinted to the left and thrown to the right."

Good luck to you in your personal life, Amicalola, I hope this works out for you. You don't owe the strangers on this board any more of your time.

I'm going to second this. Letting a game end because it's consuming players' lives is a good thing. I do not for one second regret when I pushed for an early end to a Pitboss.

Very much agreed with this, by the way. I would have liked very much to see this game played out to an in-game conclusion ... by imaginary humans with infinite time for games. Ending it instead was by far the best choice - since it's in fact played by real humans in the real world! Also, Cyneheard, since you reminded me, as one of the participants (and not even the worst-affected on my own team!) I want to say: Thank you so, so much for pushing to end PB3 all those years ago!

[Amicalola]

Thanks for the kind words, Thrawn and Refsteel. They are sincerely appreciated.

The funny thing is, as my personal situation has started to stabilise, I am already vaguely tempted to join a (normal-sized) new game. Despite enjoying my break from it all! I guess I never learn anything.

[superdeath]

Thanks for the kind words, Thrawn and Refsteel. They are sincerely appreciated.

The funny thing is, as my personal situation has started to stabilise, I am already vaguely tempted to join a (normal-sized) new game. Despite enjoying my break from it all! I guess I never learn anything.

There IS a diplo game that would love to get some more players...

[Amicalola]

Thanks for the kind words, Thrawn and Refsteel. They are sincerely appreciated.

The funny thing is, as my personal situation has started to stabilise, I am already vaguely tempted to join a (normal-sized) new game. Despite enjoying my break from it all! I guess I never learn anything.

There IS a diplo game that would love to get some more players...

I'm pretty stupid, but luckily not that stupid.

[superdeath]

Thanks for the kind words, Thrawn and Refsteel. They are sincerely appreciated.

The funny thing is, as my personal situation has started to stabilise, I am already vaguely tempted to join a (normal-sized) new game. Despite enjoying my break from it all! I guess I never learn anything.

There IS a diplo game that would love to get some more players...

I'm pretty stupid, but luckily not that stupid.

[Charriu]

Thanks for the kind words, Thrawn and Refsteel. They are sincerely appreciated.

The funny thing is, as my personal situation has started to stabilise, I am already vaguely tempted to join a (normal-sized) new game. Despite enjoying my break from it all! I guess I never learn anything.

There IS a diplo game that would love to get some more players...

I'm pretty stupid, but luckily not that stupid.