Dragged back into the vortex we go. 
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[PB64] Amicalola Gets To Heaven with Tarkeel and Ljubljana
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My plan for the thread is a bit different to my usual style, which tends to involve a lot of rambling. I want to try posting only when I have something interesting for the lurkers, as opposed to my usual Constant-Thought-Dump posts. Hopefully that means every post will be worth reading, although that may be optimistic.
 Next content-post will be an opponent analysis, once the picks are out. I'm planning to take this game pretty casually, as a way to get back into Civ4 as 'fun' after PB59. Given the field of competitors (more on that later, but Good Lord  ), this probably means an early death, but we will see. I feel like I often go into my games planning to have fun, and at some point get way too sucked in. I'll try to avoid that here, but there's probably a decent chance of it happening again, and that's why we're playing on a small map.  I really liked the Bjork naming theme in PB59. The city names were just very aesthetically pleasing to me, for whatever reason. I'm going to continue that this time but using one of my favourite bands, Everything Everything, for my naming theme. They're about as different to Bjork as you can get, but I really love them. I'll link the songs that I use in the thread, because I definitely think they're worth listening to, and I like Mjmd/Naufragar's song links too. I've talked about it a fair bit already, but I suspect people are going to over-rate me in any opponent analysis or decision making they might do this game. Someone joked earlier to me that this would be my 'reputation reset' game, which made me giggle. I'd probably place myself at about 'average' in this field of competitors, maybe slightly below (and that's when I'm playing fully competitively). But more on that too in the opponent analysis. In any case, I suspect my thread title might be quite apt for this one. 
hi amica!
i don't know how to play Civ4 at all (literally at all) but, well, after your PB59 i kinda think you're the best and am rooting for you big-time  may i dedlurk here and offer a constant stream of positive feedback coupled with zero (literally zero) substantive analysis or ideas? (you don't have to say yes and i'll be rooting for you either way) (April 22nd, 2022, 18:51)ljubljana Wrote: hi amica! Hey! Thanks, I really appreciate the kind words. Of course you're welcome to dedlurk - besides, that sounds like ideal feedback anyways. The same is true for anyone else, although as mentioned between the random map/picks, our neighbours, and playing somewhat casually this could either be a very short, or fairly long, game. But one thing that's always welcome in my threads is comments, be they substantive or not. If you'd like, I can try to explain my moves in a vaguely newbie-friendly way. I'm not really sure how I'd go about that (Civ4 is complicated, and it's easy to forget how once you understand it), but I would certainly be happy to try. Regardless, you're welcome here, and feel free to ask any questions that come to mind. Edit: Crosspost but glad to see you lurking too, Civac. I've just realised that you've actually never watched one of my games before, we've always played together until now. Weird.
Welcome Ljlubljana! This looks like it's going to be a very different game compared to most of the other civ4 games played recently, and especially the early game is going to be more competing against the map/game than the other players I think. I've offered to ded-lurk as well, but will as usual mainly contribute to the macro side of stuff.
Civac: Amica was indeed pretty involved in PB58, at least up until T200 or so.  (April 23rd, 2022, 01:46)civac2 Wrote: Hey, ljubljana. Is there another Civ6 game in the works? I'm craving entertainment. Also following this game, of course. well...not by me (yet?) but the super-talented, inimitable Chevalier Mal Fet (shhh, don't tell them i said that  ) just returned from a lengthy civ hiatus to blog about a carebear PBEM they are playing with friends under the City Lights mod. highly recommended reading, as always where CMF is concerned (April 23rd, 2022, 01:48)Amicalola Wrote: If you'd like, I can try to explain my moves in a vaguely newbie-friendly way. I'm not really sure how I'd go about that (Civ4 is complicated, and it's easy to forget how once you understand it), but I would certainly be happy to try. Regardless, you're welcome here, and feel free to ask any questions that come to mind. omg NO worries, that is very kind of you to offer but i def don't think you need to make any special effort to make sure i get what's going on. i think i'm mostly here to Bask In The Experience of lurking a game i don't really understand and occasionally say nice things about u 
Entering The Murderbowl! (PB64 Opponent Analysis)
 Overall, one word is going to summarise this game: violence. Out of our five opponents, four are what I'd consider 'Extremely Aggressive,' and the other is playing one of CtH's most defensive civs (Greece). We are going to get attacked - it is not a question of if, but when. Overall, this game is full of solid players; I don't think there are any obvious weak links, which might make conquest difficult. So we'll leave that up to the random map roll to decide.  I'm giving the player skill more weight than the picks for my scores, because I think its more important. TBS would destroy me with a terrible pick, even if I had a great one. Maximum values of 4 and 6 seem about right. With that said, here's what I think of the individual opponents for this one. Superdeath: Victoria (FIN/IMP) of Carthage (Fishing/Mining; Numidian Cavalry; Cothon) This pick is great. Superdeath wins the pick phase for PB64!  Victoria is going to be really nice on a random, less lush map. She will let Superdeath expand quickly and pay for it, which is pretty much ideal. In fact, my Mao is basically a (very) poor man's Victoria. Meanwhile, Carthage has one of the best starting tech combos in CtH, and a UU/UB that are both at least 'passable.' Amazing leader, amazing civ, 'nuff said.Superdeath himself is more of a mixed bag. Occasionally he busts out some amazing move that I definitely couldn't do, and looks really impressive. Superdeath definitely has moments of brilliance. More often though he self-combusts over some grudge, or falls behind in micro before his macro has a chance to matter much. I still ponder his over-arching moves in PB60, and I still have no idea what he was thinking. I do think Superdeath is improving though, and maybe I'm being a bit harsh here. Pick Strength: 4/4. Player Strength: 2/6. Total Strength: 6/10. Verdict: A highly dangerous player that is very likely to ruin at least one other player's game, and can put up a great defense, but is fairly unlikely to actually win. Naufragar: Darius (FIN/ORG) of Sumeria (Agriulture/Wheel; Vulture; Ziggurat) So here's the thing: I love this pick. It's got commerce for days, a UB/Trait discount synergy, fantastic starting techs, all great stuff. Here's the other thing: Naufragar will absolutely hate this pick. He likes fast traits (I remember him having a particular love for IMP), and wacky combos, and there's none of that here. It is a strong package though, and Nauf should be served well by it if he can resist role-playing as Joao or Montezuma. Nauf as a player is underestimated. He made a few big mistakes in PB59, but so did everyone else - Nauf just happened to be punished badly for them. From what I can tell he's very aggressive, but slightly more logical in his target choices than Superdeath tends to be. We also have some history that ended badly for Nauf, so I'm hoping he doesn't hold a grudge.  The civ trends towards peaceful development, while the player tends towards murder; it will be interesting to see which motivation wins out. Pick Strength: 3/4. Player Strength: 3.5/6. Total Strength: 6.5/10. Verdict: A contradictory combination between a strong pick and a competitive player, with potential for huge success or total failure. Commodore: Lincoln (CHA/PHI) of the Celts (Hunting/Mysticism; Gallic Warrior; Dun) Is Lincoln good?  Some people sure think so, based on the PB59 opponent analyses. I'm not as convinced. CHA/PHI is great if you want to bulb something in the midgame, the most likely target probably being Astronomy. But is Astronomy on a 70% land map any good? Are the Celts a great civ to help you get there? Can Commodore ever overcome the combo of terrible starting techs and zero expansion power? Are there any decent bulb targets outside of that? I'll be honest, I'm not that optimistic. Commodore himself, I feel similarly about. Bear in mind that I've only really lurked the games I was here for, which means starting at about PB50. So the games I've seen Commodore play are PB53, PB55, and PB59. PB53 is the only one of those I'd call impressive. In PB55, Commodore made a great ally towards me, but I never got the impression that he was very close to winning. In PB59, he spent the entire game warring with a neighbour to ruin their game, also at the complete expense of his own. To be clear, I think Commodore is better than me. Considerably so. But I don't personally put him on the 'ridiculous' level of TBS/Mackoti/Old Harry/Pindicator. More the 'solid veteran' category, with a penchant for triggering MAD. But hey, maybe this is the game to change that! Pick Strength: 1.5/4. Player Strength: 5/6. Total Strength: 6.5/10. Verdict: A far more threatening version of Superdeath with a far less impressive pick; probably my controversial take of this game. Ginger: Charlemagne (IMP/PRO) of Greece (Fishing/Hunting; Hoplite; Odeon) Charlemagne is about the closest you can get to Mao Zedong without picking him, and I prefer Mao.  I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on Charlie vs. Mao though, either dedlurkers or general lurkers. Greece though, Greece! I might be missing something, but the new hoplite seems busted. Like, it makes HAs even less viable? It kills knights on the defense?? It costs half the hammers of a pikeman????  I'm not really sure why the hoplite was changed, I kinda liked the niche that the old version filled. Anyway, the starting techs aren't great and the building seems pretty useless, but I think the Hoplite carries this pick alongside Charlie. Claim land, defend it, pay for it with PRO, it's all solid stuff.Ginger is a hyper-competent newbie, and I'm really glad that he's sticking around. He's great at building, but still quite new to warfare (see: PB63). In such a violent world, I think this pick will act as a great deterrent against all the wolves, and it synergises extremely well with Ginger as a player, all but ensuring he will be left alone. I have high hopes for this one! Ginger does enjoy his sandbox, so is perhaps the best target for any Immortal shenanigans if I feel brave enough to try that. Pick Strength: 3.5/4. Player Strength: 3.5/6. Total Strength: 7/10. Verdict: A building-inclined newcomer with a great, synergistic pick. I expect good things. Gavagai: Shaka (AGG/EXP) of Ethiopia (Hunting/Mining; Oromo Warrior; Stele) Oooooooh.  So this might surprise people, but I really like this one, easily the most exciting pick here. I think Shaka is great, probably the best leader for an obnoxious ancient/classical era stomp (this comes from liking EXP slightly more than IMP, I suspect). Aggressive is actually in a pretty good place now, that Barrage promotion is pretty nice in those classical wars, and the unit maintenance is a really nice side-bonus. I love Ethiopia - that 2-turn bonus on the Stele is actually decent, and even better, there are no IND leaders in this one, so Gavagai can use his saved hammers to go for an early Stonehenge. The starting techs are fantastic in CtH, and the Oromo Warrior is actually decent to boot. Build Stonehenge, build a bunch of cities, build cheap granaries/barracks, and slaughter the nearest neighbour. Tech up, draft a disgusting horde of Aggressive Oromos, and do it again. I love it.  So pretty much everything I know about Gavagai comes from word of mouth. And it all suggests that Gavagai loves it too. Gavagai is meant to be an extremely competent, extremely aggressive player, with a curious mutual vendetta against Commodore. He certainly got close to having it all work out in PB55 before getting stuck in a 2-front war. Barring random map shenanigans, I fully expect Gavagai to massacre someone in the Classical era, and I think there's a decent chance that the someone is us.Pick Strength: 3.5/4. Player Strength: 5/6. Overall Strength: 8.5/10. Verdict: An aggressive player with a fantastic pick for aggression - Gavagai is my pick for the favourite. Amicalola: Mao Zedong (EXP/PRO) of Persia (Agriculture/Hunting; Immortal; Bazaar) Ew. Ok, I really like Mao Zedong. Expansive is one of the traits I still wanted to try in CtH, so I'm glad I get the opportunity here; it's extremely simple, but endlessly useful. Protective really impressed me in PB60; it's not the best trait, especially without islands (which I suspect this map will lack), but the early commerce is nice, and the cheap Castles are deceptively strong. Mao is definitely a powerhouse of a leader early on, if one that falls off pretty hard. Persia, on the other hand, just sucks. The starting techs are ok at best (Ljubljana: Generally, the priority of a civ for me is Starting Techs => Unique Unit > Unique Building). Agriculture and Hunting are both very cheap in the mod, but at least we'll be able to improve our food quickly. But Immortals are thoroughly uninteresting, at least to me (chariot rushes do not seem like the Path to Victory), and the Bazaar might as well not exist. This is definitely the weakest civ of the 6 rolls. Side Note: Charriu, if you're reading this: A lot of the CtH changed UB's are decidedly too weak. Like the Garden, the Bazaar, the Tatara... these are interesting ideas, but the numbers need to be buffed if you want people to pick those civs. I'd be curious what others think about this too. As a player... well, at this point I think I've actually got a decent grasp of my strengths and weaknesses. I guess I'll gimp myself in future games by talking about them here. In general, I prefer to play solid civ than go for shiny combos. Give me Expansive/Organised/Protective over Spiritual/Philosophical anyday. I generally prefer to build rather than fight, because the uncertainty of Civ combat (particularly early on) stresses me out. I'm actually decent at the building part nowadays though, if I'm left alone to play in my sandpit. PB55 and PB56 weren't the best showings for me, but they did teach me a lot, and I've been able to build on that in my later games. My micro has gotten quite efficient by this point, and that's a huge deal in a PitBoss, although my disinterest in simming is surely a handicap. The other lesson I took from my first few games was this: If you chase two rabbits, you will lose them both. I think that's basically the best lesson anyone could take in Civ4 - once you decide to do something, commit to it 100%. My first weakness is morale, which is shaky even on a good day. The other thing is early warfare; I think my secret to winning my last few games has been largely being left alone before T100. My lack of simming helps, but I don't handle my sandbox being messed with very well. Pick Strength: 2/4. Player Strength: 4/6. Overall Strength: 6/10. Verdict: A decent player with a weak pick, in a remarkably hostile neighbourhood. Will need to get the snowball rolling early to have any chance of competing late. - - - I'll have more thoughts on what our gameplan should be next time, because I think Mao pushes us in an interesting (and very unfamiliar) direction. Let me know if you have any bones to pick with my thoughts or ratings.
You keep underselling yourself, but maybe that helps you. I notice that none of the players for over 4.5 and none below 2.5. I think if your sample is active PB players (as in, has played in a game in the last 2 years or so?) the spread could be wider, in both directions.
While I like both in isolation I think that Sumeria is a terrible match for Darius. I also consider the Odeon quite useful. Apart from not dying (important! But actually you never have come even close to it, right?), how do you win the game? |
