[PB64] Amicalola Gets To Heaven with Tarkeel and Ljubljana

[Tarkeel]

It's a little boring given my recent games, but I suspect building Stonehenge -> GLH would be very strong on this map - there are very few cottageable tiles, which makes GLH/Colossus better relatively speaking. The other option will be to rush Construction/HBR and massacre someone, but I don't know if that's realistic, as we seem reasonably far apart on this map. I am still considering the third alternative of Oracle -> Metal Casting (Colossus), but that just doesn't seem as strong when we're Protective. Someone change my mind? The best argument against Stonehenge/GLH that I can think of is that with Serfdom, it's better to have fewer/stronger cities, which is directly anti-synergistic with those wonders. 

I think serfdom works decently with many cities; you want a lot of worked tiles and there's less cost to grow small.

On the other hand, the thing that pushes me towards a catapult-era rush is that with such little food, and with EXP/PRO traits, we're strongly incentivised away from city infrastructure. I'm thinking things like Forges, Libraries, Courthouses - those suck here, relatively speaking, because we can't efficiently whip them out. So we might as well grow our cities to the happy cap pre-Construction, and just put all those whips into units instead, is my instinct. Interestingly, that happy cap will actually be unrealistically high, since it looks like we have three luxuries within vaguely 'easy' reach. We'll see if we neighbour anyone less prickly than Wet-Corn/Gold Gavagai to our south.

All I can see is more arguments for more, smaller cities.

[Amicalola]

T40-41: Blast Doors


We settle our second city this turn, which opens up the Blast Doors on our research rate.


This song has such a good energy. Strongly recommended to those of you who run/jog/gym (which goes for most of this album, really). 

You'll notice some pretty Wack micro of the capital this turn. That's because to save that forest, I decided to just chop an extra one at the capital into a settler. It's not good, because I want Stonehenge, but it's better than putting it into a 2nd-city Work Boat. But we don't want to chop to finish next turn (as scheduled), and we want a road on this tile regardless. So by working this river-plains, we finish Wheel this turn (instead of being 1 commerce short), and the WB this turn (instead of being 1 hammer short), and the worker can spend a turn roading so that the chop finishes on the same turn as growth (with no lost worker turns to movement). We can still grow to Size 4 on the same turn, so I think this is worth it - it does looks very strange though. 

My absolute bare minimum C&D reveals that Ginger researched Mysticism this turn - someone we know did, and Ginger is the only candidate according to PBSpy. I did it, guys! C&D! The question is, why does Ginger want Mysticism? The answer is probably Stonehenge. This is why our starting techs are so shocking, grumble grumble. 

I think serfdom works decently with many cities; you want a lot of worked tiles and there's less cost to grow small.

All I can see is more arguments for more, smaller cities.

Interesting, I definitely think we disagree on the first point. The big issue with Serfdom to me is getting buildings out, which is even more of a problem when you have more cities (more buildings) with less tiles to work (less hammers per city). Personally I think CRE is a top trait to run Serfdom with, precisely because it lets you settle cities further apart. I've come to believe that Stonehenge is amazing with it for the same reason. But maybe you're right - I've definitely been wrong before. Any lurkers have thoughts?  

The other big argument against more smaller cities (specifically in this game) is just that we have nothing to feed them with. The grass is yellow, the crops are few, and the animals are hungry. Reminds me of my homeland.  Even with few cities we're never looking at more than 1 food resource per city, and those are generally 3-4 food rather than 5-6. So with more cities, there's just nothing to feed them with. 

Side Note - Lumbermills could be really great on this map, no whipping etc. Maybe we start planning out which forests to save? Also, I haven't posted it yet! My password is 'heaven,' so login already!

[civac2]

Well, each additional city nets you +2 food due to its base tile. However, it seems to me that it's not wise to settle a lot of cities with bad land. That will hurt your economy for not that muchof a return. It may be better to settle the better spots and leave some weak land unsettled.

[Amicalola]

T42 - Partyin'
I have no news to report this turn, other than the absolute rout that the Australian election has become. We did it!


- - -

Well, each additional city nets you +2 food due to its base tile. However, it seems to me that it's not wise to settle a lot of cities with bad land. That will hurt your economy for not that muchof a return. It may be better to settle the better spots and leave some weak land unsettled.

That's my instinct, too. At least until GLH/Currency, if we go that route.

[Amicalola]

T43-47: Bungle Salvaged? Ish. 

So I did indeed 'save' the error of forest chopping. What I've ended up with isn't great, but it's MUCH better than Warm Healer just losing its forest. I can go into the micro I ended up doing if someone would like, but honestly I suspect it would be a dreadfully long and boring passage, so for now I won't. The net result of it all is that Warm Healer loses 4 hammers, and Blast Doors loses a few commerce. Could have been a lot worse, as I value food much higher than either of those, and that was the alternative. 

At Warm Healer, we could whip the settler this turn. 


But we don't. Instead, I'm opting for one of my favourite early-game tricks - turning pre-granary food into granary hammers, via civilian builds. We'll whip Warm Healer T49 into a 1-turn granary on T50, which I like much better than growing onto that food before the granary is built. Blast Doors will probably do the same thing with a worker, is my current thought. Our demos will look considerably worse for a little while as a result, but I think long-term it's worth it. 

Now that Pottery is finished, I'm starting research into Mysticism. Even if we can't land Stonehenge, we'll need Monuments sooner rather than later. 

Then there is a final question: do we want to found our 3rd city on the Green, or the Red dot. Green gets copper as a workable tile (and we don't want to found a city further north for ages, so that's valuable), but Red saves a forest, kills a jungle, is on a hill, gets Horse, and has 5 forests to chop into GLH. That makes it sound like Red is way better, but copper is a big deal. I'm really quite torn. 


I do think I lean towards Red, but my thinking is always skewed towards the long-term, so I'm interested if either of you disagree. I think there is a genuine debate to be had. Dedlurkers, lend me your aid!

[Tarkeel]

Earlier I was thinking about either the green dot, or N of it. Red hadn't crossed my mind, in part due to how spread out it is. I guess that's the main consideration here, how tight do you want your placement to be? It also has to do with how defensible the land will be, but red isn't that much worse off than the other two, especially if the defensive stack is parked on the sheep hill.

I do like your plans for red dot though; chopping out GLH there might be the best way forward. It will have commanding culture in the area as well,

[Amicalola]

Earlier I was thinking about either the green dot, or N of it. Red hadn't crossed my mind, in part due to how spread out it is. I guess that's the main consideration here, how tight do you want your placement to be? It also has to do with how defensible the land will be, but red isn't that much worse off than the other two, especially if the defensive stack is parked on the sheep hill.

I do like your plans for red dot though; chopping out GLH there might be the best way forward. It will have commanding culture in the area as well,

A thought! What about Stonehenge in Red Dot, and GLH in the capital? That pops the borders way faster, and also the new city doesn't really want a lighthouse (no seafood). The issue is that we don't have enough workers to even remotely chop Stonehenge efficiently, so it would need to stay up until T60, or something equally disgusting. That seems... unlikely.

[Amicalola]

T48-50: Granary 
We might not have food anywhere else on the map, but we do have a pretty lush capital. Let's use it.


The food box gets to 12/24 this turn, as a nice little bonus. I, uh, definitely planned that out in advance.

I decided to move the settler onto Green Dot. It's not as exciting, but I think getting that copper as a worked tile ASAP will be pretty helpful. It might be that we just give up on Stonehenge, and use the final three forests to chop GLH at Warm Healer. We can get a food resource 1st-ring (or no food resource) at all the cities I've identified so far anyway, so Stonehenge is probably a waste of resources. Which makes this Mysticism research pretty suspect - oops.

Our warriors finds a hut(!), and...


Eek!   I don't know how barbarian AI works, hopefully he doesn't squash our warrior like a bug. Good thing we're connecting copper soon...

Our first demo shot:


We know my micro is Perfect and Flawless, so clearly we have the worst land.

[Amicalola]

T51: To The Blade

Whew, what an opener. 

We found To The Blade on the Red Dot (and reveal a fish on the one tile we skipped earlier, gah). 


A worker begins pasturing the cows immediately. I wanted to get a chop into the granary at Size 1, but that doesn't seem feasible. Perhaps I should have built a third worker before the settler, but I wanted to get the whip cycle up straight away. The real mistake was here: 


I guess it wouldn't be an Amicalola game without fudging the early worker turns. We've worked that mine for a grand total of one turn, building it was definitely a misplay (I wasn't expecting to steal the fish for so long). YOU could have been a chop!  

Naufragar declares war and gets capital visibility, so he knows where we're at. 


I saw no reason not to accept the peace treaty. 

First in Food, last in MFG... now this is an Amicalola demographics screen! 


I do wonder what's up with the 20 production that someone's rocking. Stonehenge? IMP Settlers?

[Mjmd]

I'm wondering why that spear is fortified on that hill.