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(May 24th, 2022, 17:01)superdeath Wrote: (May 24th, 2022, 16:56)Jowy Wrote: Elementary school shot up today in USA. If only those toddlers had guns too this wouldn't have happened.
Stricter gun laws would be nice. But its hard to make them effective without taking away from lawful citizens. Crazy people do Crazy things.
Yup, and many more things that could be done. Basically anything that helps people have a better life, whether it's healthcare, welfare safety nets, good public education etc. Very very rarely you go shoot up a school or a mall if you're leading a good life. At some point when these things happen like weekly you gotta realize it's a systematic issue that can only be fixed by changing how the system works.
May 24th, 2022, 18:25
(This post was last modified: May 24th, 2022, 18:26 by Amicalola.)
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(May 24th, 2022, 17:01)superdeath Wrote: (May 24th, 2022, 16:56)Jowy Wrote: Elementary school shot up today in USA. If only those toddlers had guns too this wouldn't have happened.
Stricter gun laws would be nice. But its hard to make them effective without taking away from lawful citizens. Crazy people do Crazy things.
I think the question you need to ask yourself is whether 'taking them away from lawful citizens' is a necessary price for taking them away from school shooters.
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(May 24th, 2022, 18:25)Amicalola Wrote: (May 24th, 2022, 17:01)superdeath Wrote: (May 24th, 2022, 16:56)Jowy Wrote: Elementary school shot up today in USA. If only those toddlers had guns too this wouldn't have happened.
Stricter gun laws would be nice. But its hard to make them effective without taking away from lawful citizens. Crazy people do Crazy things.
I think the question you need to ask yourself is whether 'taking them away from lawful citizens' is a necessary price for taking them away from school shooters.
While school shootings are obviously HORRIBLE, i dont believe thats the right logic for this situation. While it isnt the exact same as "because of drunk/idiot drivers, lets take away cars!" It will feel that way to most Americans.
My proposed change is simple. Mandatory background checks on all firearm purchases. If you have a history of X mental disorder/ect, no chance. Also, ONLY licensed gun-stores can sell firearms. None of that gun show buying ect. Will that stop the shootings? No. Will it help? I believe so.
Taking away guns in the total sense as seen in many European countries will not happen here. All but the most far left leaning Americans would riot. As Jowy mentioned, Guns are only the object these people are using for their violence. Better healthcare/living is what will see the greatest change in the amount of shootings and other violence that the United States sees.
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Look at Switzerland. They still have a lot of guns, but have very few gun accidents and mass shootings
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The history and culture behind guns is obviously very deep in the US and that is without the fact its been amped up by the NRA. Could we take reasonable measures like Switzerland that also wouldn't violate the 2nd amendment. Sure.
However, there is still the problem of enforcement. What people always forget about passing laws is they need to be enforced. In general law enforcement is very right leaning. Will some right wing sheriff enforce or punish gun shop owners who don't do background checks? Unlikely. How do we fundamentally change gun culture to be accepting of controls? We can implement all the successful policies from other countries we want and it might help some (which is still good), but the only thing that will truly make any changes actually effective is a change in tone and perception from Republicans. Which will only happen if it becomes a clear losing issue voting wise.
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I don't expect anything to actually be done, it's not like this is the first elementary school shooting there. Democrats are so incompetent that things can only go backwards.
May 25th, 2022, 06:18
(This post was last modified: May 25th, 2022, 06:21 by Ginger().)
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(May 25th, 2022, 04:38)Jowy Wrote: I don't expect anything to actually be done, it's not like this is the first elementary school shooting there. Democrats are so incompetent that things can only go backwards.
>Gun control is a big loss with single-issue voters in the American electorate
>Democrat gun control legislation consistently gets blocked by Republicans
>"I can't believe Democrats can't do this!"
I love how the implicit understanding that one party will never do anything to address a particular issue leads to the other party getting all the blame for the lack of progress on said issue. I mean if your expectations for Republican contributions is negative, it makes sense, but it still feels a little unfair.
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Democrats are cowards that refuse to go to war on this issue. It's winnable, just like abortion rights are...but they lack courage.
Darrell
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(May 25th, 2022, 06:18)Ginger() Wrote: (May 25th, 2022, 04:38)Jowy Wrote: I don't expect anything to actually be done, it's not like this is the first elementary school shooting there. Democrats are so incompetent that things can only go backwards.
>Gun control is a big loss with single-issue voters in the American electorate
>Democrat gun control legislation consistently gets blocked by Republicans
>"I can't believe Democrats can't do this!"
I love how the implicit understanding that one party will never do anything to address a particular issue leads to the other party getting all the blame for the lack of progress on said issue. I mean if your expectations for Republican contributions is negative, it makes sense, but it still feels a little unfair.
Democrats are fine with the status quo, they don't care. Why are Manchin and Sinema not whipped? Democrats have the majority and nothing gets done except what the Republicans want. And even when they had a bigger majority in 2013-2015 what did they do with it? Did they remove the filibuster? Did they codify Roe vs Wade? Did they do anything meaningful after Sandy Hook? No, but Israel gets sent billions so it can continue to bomb brown kids. Well maybe they already passed everything in 2011-2013, let's look. Oh a right wing terrorist shooting at Tucson. Was something done that time to prevent future shootings? Hmm a NATO attack on Libya, yeah the one where they penetrated evil Gaddafi's asshole with a bayonet after he had surrendered.
"Supporters praised Gaddafi's administration for the creation of an almost classless society through domestic reform. They stressed the regime's achievements in combating homelessness, ensuring access to food and safe drinking water, and to dramatic improvements in education; under Gaddafi, literacy rates rose significantly, and all education to university level was free. Gaddafi's Great Man-Made River is the world's largest irrigation project. Supporters have also applauded achievements in medical care, praising the universal free healthcare provided under the Gaddafist administration" wiki
Maybe they should have recruited him instead of raping his asshole to death. Okay, so 2011-2013, not great. The excuse was that the Republicans had the House. Well, now Democrats have the House, the Senate and the presidency.
Let's go back one more congress to the 2009-2011 one, where they also had the trifecta. Republicans once again strike hard without holding any of the three, with the Citizens United v FEC, giving corporations unlimited power to lobby and buy politicians. At least there was a health care reform, awesome. Not enough, clearly, as healthcare is still a huge issue. Repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell so LGB too get to sell their lives to the military. Not the trans though, let's not get crazy here. That's mostly it, huh. Well let's look at the proposed laws that didn't get done. American Clean Energy and Security Act? Fuck the planet. DREAM Act? Fuck the immigrants. Employee Free Choice Act? Fuck the workers. Employment Non-Discrimination Act? Fuck the minorities. Federal Reserve Transparency Act? Fuck transparency. Gun Show Loophole Closing Act? Fuck gun control. Puerto Rico Democracy Act? Fuck Puerto Ricans. Respect for Marriage Act? Fuck the gays.
Looking forward to the next list of things Democrats should have got done but didn't.
May 25th, 2022, 09:01
(This post was last modified: May 25th, 2022, 09:01 by Mjmd.)
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Ya its not like a lot of people are happy to vote for Democrats or actually think they will do what they will say. Even if they do something there isn't any guarantee they do it anywhere near smart (not a Democrat strength). A lot of people just vote Democrat because our other party is SOOO BAD. 100x worse now with trying to overthrow elections.
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