[PB65] Pinch-Hitting Pindicator

[pindicator]

It's baseball season. I just listened to my university team advance to the next round of the NCAA baseball tournament. Hense the baseball analogy.

I'm just going to do my best not to boot the ball when it is hit my way.

[Hitru]

Mind if I tag along as a ( very ) part time dedlurker? ?

[pindicator]

You're definitely welcome, Hitru

[pindicator]

We'll have to see the start, but top contenders are Egypt, Mali, and Celts.  Charlie is probably the most well rounded leader, but there might be better fit for civ or strategy somewhere else.

Leaders sorted by trait:

AGG - Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Stalin
CHA - Washington
CRE - Kublai Khan, Hatshepsut
EXP - Bismarck, Washington
IMP - Genghis Khan, Charlemagne
IND - Ramesses, Bismarck, Stalin
ORG - Frederick
PHI - Frederick
PRO - Charlemagne
SPI - Ramesses, Hatshepsut

[Commodore]

[pindicator]

Who needs Agriculture? Especially with how cheap it is. Hunting > BW > AH > Pottery looks like the order to play this, unless there is some kind of wonder push to be had in all this.

I guess this gives Mali and Celts a boost. Probably knocks Carthage out of contention entirely, though they were never high on my interest anyway. Egypt could still be in the running just because we're going to want AH early anyway, but I don't know if delaying BW that much is going to be worth a quick UU. (Yes, there is a part of me that just wants to rush out a quick War Chariot or two after how my last game went.)

I guess that leaves America. Starting techs are pretty worthless here, but is there anything to the new UB? (Thank goodness we don't have Pericles; the Johnny gamer in me might not have been able to resist.) The best case use I can think of for America is abusing the fact that it is a personless-GP point. So we'll be earning passive GP on a building you are going to want to build early in the capital anyway - that could be a useful boost, letting you focus elsewhere and getting occasional boosts of great people. So Genghis Khan of America ... maybe. I can see it working, going for a war-monger playstyle and then using the great people to catch up in tech. But I would honestly need some convincing. Or maybe even Stalin if you want to get cute with IND - but I'm not of the mind for cute play this game.

Bismarck of Mali, Washington of Celts, Charlie of either - those are my top contenders. Maybe Kublai of America if I'm getting adventurous.

[pindicator]

Right now I'm thinking about SIP, worker > warrior > warrior > settler at size 2. 2nd warrior would put us halfway to size 3 so maybe it's worth growing again. If I was Charlie I would hard push for a city at size 2 to get that PRO commerce coming in early. Charlie is a tempting choice; with either Mali or Celts it would be either end of t20 or 21 that we get BW done. Meanwhile grow to 2 on t17 and an IMP settler would finish t26. Non-IMP finishes t27.

[Hitru]

I need to read through the changes in this mod before commenting in detail but I agree on sip. I also agree that any of Bismarck, Washington or Charle is a good choice.

You have played on this mod before, right? How did the PRO trade route bonus scale through the game?

I'm not that happy about any of our civ candidates though. That +2 gpp points is really small bonus after the first 2 GP, but the musket looks pretty good actually. Easy to upgrade to a fast mover. Celts look ok but nothing spectacular. Mali is safe and pretty good always, Bismarck of Mali makes sense in that case.

[pindicator]

Yeah I'm a little more up to date but I still have to review the changes to 3.0 in depth. PRO was very strong when I played it in PB52, got nerfed so that it's strong early but falls off later. Now they've added a market production bonus, which actually fits with the REX theme of the trait.

There are other things i need to go over, like the lumbermill changes, but here are traits:

Traits

• Financial: +1 commerce on land tiles that have 3+ commerce, lighthouse gives: +1 commerce on water tiles that have 2+ commerce, +50% production of bank
  
• Expansive: Remove Worker bonus, add +100% production of Aqueduct
  
• Creative: Remove production bonus for Colosseum
  
• Charismatic: +100% production of Monument, +100% production of Colosseum
  
• Aggressive: -50% unit maintenance cost, free Barrage I for all siege weapons
  
• Philosophical: +150% GPP instead of +100%, +100% production of monasteries
  
• Protective: +100% domestic trade route yield (works like a harbor mechanically, just only for domestic trade), +50% production of market
  
• Industrious: +100% production of national wonders

I've also been souring on the Celts a little, and that in turn makes Washington less likely. Mali is just better for starting techs, and perhaps this is a correction from my last game but I'm putting a lot more weight into that this time around. As for Washington, the start doesn't seem food-rich enough for me to like CHA. It will probably be just the 2 deer for a while as I don't think just a plains sheep is worth getting AH early.

So that leaves Bismarck / Charlemagne of Mali OR Kublai Khan of America. Charlie is probably not the pick but I've been entertaining the thought of pushing out a very fast settler at size 2 to get the extra commerce coming in fast. This is Emperor difficulty and if the map is similar in size to recent games (it seems it will be) then we are going to feel city costs early on.  Mali let's me go Hunting > BW > Agri > Pottery and start cottaging before turn 40.  Or if I find my neighbor is as close as my last game I switch to Archery and choke them.

I can only see America as a warmonger game. Agg/Cre to settle up on people, and the great people points are a nice-to-have to help get some early tech done but nothing you lean on.  Kublai would be the natural fit.  But my issue with America is their starting techs are the worst of my choices for this opening. Agg/Fish means I have to research everything. I suppose I was using you as a bit of a check there Hitru; if I heard you say anything positive about them I was going to look closer, but it seems we're both in agreement that the benefits aren't exciting enough here.

[Tarkeel]

There are other things i need to go over, like the lumbermill changes, but here are traits:

Lumbermills are awesome, if you can avoid chopping the forests.

PRO is still strongest pre T-100ish, but picks up again around T150-175 when you're getting more trade routes than you have partners. Don't discount the military part of it either.