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As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer |
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[PB64] Amicalola Gets To Heaven with Tarkeel and Ljubljana
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Ah the terror of quiet players posting. Delicious
Mods: RtR CtH
Pitboss: PB39, PB40, PB52, PB59 Useful Collections: Pickmethods, Mapmaking, Curious Civplayer Buy me a coffee 
T136
Naufragar has declared war on Gavagai!   Gavagai is moving this axe stack over, but I wouldn't hold my breath that this is too serious yet. For a start, Gav's horse archers are noticeably missing. And they don't have much to fight over, compared to invading me. Look at this area:  Naufragar hasn't moved in on Alexander III from what I can tell, and Gavagai hasn't gone for Cistercian. It's weird. So is this a real war? An elaborate ruse? Is Gavagai going to consecutively fight every other player? I guess we'll find out. (Note that Gavagai actually got the wet corn, not Naufragar. Ahem.  ). I've finally refounded The Wheel and No Reptiles.  These were two of my best individual cities before the wars, and particularly losing The Wheel really hurt. Going to be a long time before we can rebuild these - at least Expansive is useful for longer now. I moved No Reptiles slightly to work two extra coast and share better mines, at the cost of a bare grassland. Not sure how I feel about it, still, but without cottages the bare grass isn't as good. Weirdly, founding New Wheels gained us 1 net gpt, while founding New Reptiles lost us 5 net gpt.  There is a real dilemma here between Metal Casting, Calendar, and Code of Laws. I had thought Calendar was off the cards because we were likely to just immediately lose Fever Dream, but with this diplo I wonder if that's less likely. I trust Gavagai and certainly Naufragar each a reasonable amount with diplo deals, I think, so I'd be pretty shocked for them both to renege on the fish/fish. Meanwhile, Metal Casting is great for forges and triremes, while Code of Laws would give us some desperately needed Courthouses. Normally, my instinct would be to whip Forges before Courthouses, but in a hole this deep that might be foolish. I have a few more turns to think about it.
I think they both felt that we needed knocking down a peg due to city count, and feel that goal has been accomplished, and is now ready to move on and would very much not like a revenge war at an opportune moment. Ahem.
(July 21st, 2022, 08:48)Tarkeel Wrote: I think they both felt that we needed knocking down a peg due to city count, and feel that goal has been accomplished, and is now ready to move on and would very much not like a revenge war at an opportune moment. Ahem. It's starting to look that way! There are decent stacks from both parties around Alexander III now. I remain somewhat worried that they're planning to make peace and converge on Get To Heaven, as there doesn't seem to be any real fighting and I can't find most of Gav's HAs, but that does seem like it'd be pretty difficult to communicate. I'll never forget my experience in PB59 though, and it's definitely possible. Gavagai could declare starting next turn, and Naufragar in 3 turns. I think we can hold the city in that scenario, but it would be very close and I might be wrong. But with all the fish going around, were looking pretty safe for the moment. 
T140
Well, it took 12 turns of massed wealth builds, but we finally researched a tech! And it's a big one too!  Now we have to figure out how to pay for our empire in between starting and whipping all the courthouses.  The other big news: diplomacy. I open the turn to this:  I have no idea what this means, and with Superdeath as the author, I'm not going to stress myself out interpeting it. But it looks like he wants war in 11 turns? Then we get this:  Ok, so the potential for a global dogpile seems to be brewing (Naufragar also made peace this turn, leaving the 11 turn timer as his 'minimum' war date). And joining a dogpile on our bitter enemy? That's hard to resist.... The question is going to be: can we afford it? Without wealth builds, we currently make 7 gpt at 0%.  Gavagai's big stack is getting obsolete, but boy is it Big. I've got an immortal tailing it for now. We should be able to get a pretty good idea of his intentions from where this monstrosity goes next.  We've also finally gotten Open Borders with nearly every player in the game, so I've got various immortals rushing to map out the various empires before it's revoked.
T142
Commencing Operation: Government Sacrifice!   Dreadsprings is the first victim of Big Courthouse. But most cities in the empire will soon follow. But I did make a mistake - I should have waited 2 more turns to whip to get the best combination of growth/commerce/maintenance reduction. Ah well. I think I was just excited to start Doing Things other than population growth again; oop. Other cities will typically whip the courthouses a turn before growth, unless the commerce saved is worth more than the commerce lost and/or the whipped tiles run a food deficit.
T144
We find Superdeath's stack building up. That's an awful lot of Numidians, SD, but do you maybe want some catapults or something?  SD tried to delay the war this turn, but I'm not having it. You do my timeline, or no timeline, SD. Your stack is fine, and we need Nauf alongside as well! I tried to indicate that to him, we'll see if it worked. Superdeath built the Great Wall (which he seems to like a lot), and Ginger added the Parthenon to his growing collection. Uh, does anyone want to do something about this?   Seems like Ginger had an unbelievably productive GA, between the Serfdom switch and all of these wonders. I'm not jealous, you're jealous. 
T145
The more I think about this Gavagai dogpile, the more I realise how bad an idea it is for me, specifically. Gav's entire military is on my border:  I simply don't have a stack that can stand up to 17 HAs plus extras (Gav also has a 30 unit stack of melee trash in Nicolas II). SD might snipe the Pyramids, and Naufragar can easily take Alexander III while Gav is busy wiping the floor with me. But we ourselves are left with nothing, and instead it'll just win Ginger the game. Just as importantly, I'm pretty confident that I outscale Gav. He has the Pyramids, but I have PRO and 4 extra cities, which is a relatively big deal. Why fight him now? So the question becomes: what do? I tried to send some diplo that I don't think a war is possible. Hopefully SD understands it. Hopefully he doesn't take out some ridiculous grudge about it (if he does, I'd remind the reader that he backed out of a dogpile after it started earlier this game  ). But it's SD, so anything's possible. Meanwhile, there's action over here:  Ginger's defensive stack is pretty good, though. And big, so the catapult collateral will be pretty thinly spread. Gav sent an offer for war with Naufragar in 15 turns. I don't think I want that, but I'm not certain. The main problem is that as far as I can tell, it doesn't make much sense from Gav's perspective - I gain way more from that war than he does. But then, the same is true of Nauf's proposed war with Gavagai. I worry that at least one of, maybe both of them are just trying to bait me into a war they themselves will not join, leaving them the winner. As usual, diplomacy stresses me out. I don't want to, but I need to upset someone. Thanks, I hate it. 
T147
My image didn't save, but SD sent back pretty much what I was worried about: 'Fish/Fish' and 'me (Amicalola) war with Gavagai.' Which I think means 'we can be friends, as long as you stay in this war.' I can totally see a world in which he makes a bunch of galleys and razes our coast, just out of spite. It's basically what he did in PB55, after we backed out of a war with Lewwyn. This is the problem with SD - you either need to have him thinking you're on his side, or have him so weak that he can't take out vengeance on you for 'x slight.' And SD (though a lovely person in real life) is a civ psychopath - I am 95% sure he'd back out of the war and think it was fine, but think I was screwing him to do the same. He lacks any self-awareness for the context of 'x slight,' such as the history of this game. So I'm not sure if we can call the bluff or not. The other possibility is that it means 'yeah Amica, we're chilling. No need for fighting,' and I'm just completely misinterpreting everything. But I don't get why he'd include the 'war' in that case, so I don't think so - I'm just not certain. Bah, AI diplo sucks. There is also the matter of Naufragar. I don't know if he still intends to attack in 3 turns, but his border with me is nearly demilitarised and his army is on the border with Gav. That's a badly needed ally in a very unfriendly world, and another reason to continue the attack on Gav. And so, I suspect I might be going to war in a few turns whether I like it or not. Oop.  I guess the thing to remember is that I don't actually have to attack with my stack straight away. I could instead just hang out on the border and tie up troops. That would be cathartic, if nothing else. And I think long-term, the goal is probably to split Gavagai amongst however many players can get a bite, so slowing him down is worthwhile too.The good news is that as I whip more and more courthouses, our income is starting to improve drastically! They're mostly complete on the mainland after this turn, with the island only a few turns behind. I think we can afford to tech MC next turn, with Forges also having the potential to do wonders. So long-term this game still has some potential, unless this diplo nightmare ends terribly. I feel like all of my games go through a period like this where I just get fed up with diplomacy. 
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