American Politics Discussion Thread

[superdeath]

Ill make a 5$ bet right now that Trump does not go thru with trying to become president in 2024.

Nah I think he does, it's an ego thing. 
That being said, barring any (further) health deterioration for either candidate, I don't think it's unlikely that Biden just beats him again.

is that a bet then?

[Mjmd]

"Dems are winning, let's keep it going" is a powerful message, and this fuels that, and is on top of several weeks of good news for Dems.

The Dems fell ass-backwards into a strategy that might actually work - do everything so terribly for the first 1.5 years that the next few months can only be an "improvement".

I mean lets look back:

Infrastructure bill alone is a huge accomplishment. Honestly the last 3 presidents and certainly last 2 should have passed one. This alone would have had bigger impact that most presidents get accomplished. We should have one of these every 15 years.

Also, the overall handling of the Ukraine situation has been well done. I don't know how much of that is Biden directly or just Biden actually listening to his advisors mind, but certainly overall well played thus far (not that there couldn't be improvements but on something this complex its a solid A- ). 


SD the ONLY reason he hasn't formally announced thus far is the GOP is threatening to not pay his legal bills. He has teased a ton of times though. Its pretty much guaranteed (edit assuming he doesn't get arrested).

[superdeath]

Also, the overall handling of the Ukraine situation has been well done. I don't know how much of that is Biden directly or just Biden actually listening to his advisors mind, but certainly overall well played thus far (not that there couldn't be improvements but on something this complex its a solid A- ). 


SD the ONLY reason he hasn't formally announced thus far is the GOP is threatening to not pay his legal bills. He has teased a ton of times though. Its pretty much guaranteed (edit assuming he doesn't get arrested).

While id agree with the first chunk, most people i have talked with dont believe we should have helped Ukraine at all. "money spent elsewhere instead of here" ect. Also more of the "Well, when Trump was in office Russia knew their place! People were scared/respected America! /reeeeeeeeeee.



Im betting he puts his name in, but bows out and gives his supporters to another candidate.

[Mjmd]

Helping Ukraine does a few things. I don't expect most voters to understand geopolitics nor do I claim to for that matter, but a tiny edge of it maybe? This will be a politically important point in modern history even if Russia wins in a couple years.  A) it weakens Russia. This is HUGE. Not that Russia won't be dangerous, but far less. B) it shows solidarity with Europe. C) it is / has provided a rallying point for NATO. Our alliances weren't in the best of shape after Trump. Now they are. D) It shows Europe at the least is willing to take pain for a cause. This is important because it helps keep China from getting too cocky. E) As much as people hate the military industrial complex this is going to completely change the arms export industry thanks to the sanctions / Russia using most of theirs. Its going to mean a lot of orders for US military equipment (both because of increased conflict and one of the major exporters no longer exporting). Edit: just to be clear this is good for money into the US and jobs.

Just to name a few........

[Mjmd]

So originally reading the news I was a little let down because just not turning over classified documents when subpoenaed isn't that spicy.

Not being legally minded I didn't realize warrant wasn't for the Presidential Records Act as originally thought. That as stated would be fairly trivial and honestly they could have put that on the warrant even if they were looking for more because at minimum, like I stated before, that is the low hanging fruit. No no the warrant states Espionage Act. That is a WHOLE lot spicier. IF anything sticks / they actually decide to do anything. Even if they have a mountain of evidence they may still choose not to.

[Mjmd]

Upon further reading it could also be less spicy:

The Espionage Act, for instance, does not distinguish between classified and declassified materials – unauthorized retention of any document relevant to the statute remains a crime.

Documents marked as top secret are also meant only to be viewed in secure rooms known as a sensitive compartmented information facilities, or SCIF, and their presence in a basement storage area at Mar-a-Lago appears to satisfy the technical elements of a violation of law.

I suspect if its just he had stuff he shouldn't have this will be approximately the response:

Slightly spicy:

The other statutes listed on the warrant include the federal law that makes it a crime to destroy or conceal a document in order to obstruct a government investigation, and the federal law that prohibits the unlawful removal of government documents more generally.

The inclusion of the obstruction statute could be an indication that the justice department is investigating Trump not just over the potentially unlawful retention of records, but also whether he attempted to impede a separate, or wider, criminal inquiry.

But I mean its not like obstruction charges stick to Trump.......... Its definitely not news.

[darrelljs]

Ironically Trump expanded the penalties for the Espionage Act .

Darrell

[Cyneheard]

So originally reading the news I was a little let down because just not turning over classified documents when subpoenaed isn't that spicy.

Not being legally minded I didn't realize warrant wasn't for the Presidential Records Act as originally thought. That as stated would be fairly trivial and honestly they could have put that on the warrant even if they were looking for more because at minimum, like I stated before, that is the low hanging fruit. No no the warrant states Espionage Act. That is  a WHOLE lot spicier. IF anything sticks / they actually decide to do anything. Even if they have a mountain of evidence they may still choose not to.

There's too many violations that they can't not go after some of them.

The warrant absolutely does encompass PRA - they wanted everything that was a Presidential Record. It's not like the statutes referenced in the search warrant are the only things they can possibly charge him with.

Now, they might not charge him with everything they think he did - if he was, say, selling nuclear secrets to the Saudis, they may decide that they can't prove that case well enough (or risk telling the Saudis how they knew what the Saudis were up to) - but they can absolutely get him for having those documents.

[Mjmd]

Ya but will they? Unless the rumor mill of him selling nuclear secrets to the Saudis is true (which I don't believe atm) it isn't like this instance of breaking the law is worse than others. It doesn't even break his top 10 laws broken list (again non legal person).

[T-hawk]

I remind you that no court has ever found Trump guilty of anything, through all these media frenzies.

If "no court found it" is going to be your standard of election fraud, it's also your standard for this.