[SPOILERS] Out of retirement and into the fires of war. yuris125, Pitboss 68

[yuris125]

[yuris125]

Just wanted to make a quick post - I'm thinking of AGG Rome for this game. It's a one-dimensional strategy, but one that's relatively easy to execute and other players have to respect. So, perfect for someone as rusty as I am

Reading CTH patch notes, I don't see anything that would make AGG Praetorians less than a formidable threat - am I missing anything?

Obviously this depends on the pick order, but if I do get a chance, plan is to pick Rome first, then leader second. For the second trait, I'm thinking either Phi or Fin to stay competitive after the Praetorian rush (whatever its outcome), or perhaps Cre to cheaply grab more territory in the early game, when the culture boost is relevant, and hopefully have more movement options open for the one-mover, Praetorian-based army. On a small map I think Pro and Org lose a lot of value, as there won't be many cities; I don't think other traits will help with whatever I'm doing apart from a big Prae attack. But again, with my lack of experience with CtH, suggestions/disagreements/pointing out that I'm straight up wrong would be very welcome

More thoughts to come, and I'll probably have even more thoughts once we see the final map (or at least the starting positions, don't think we decided to go with a fully known map as we did in Pitboss 50)

[Mjmd]

Yaaa I meant to bring up nerfing Rome a bit and forgot, so they are just base BtS.

Also, just a note that position on map I believe* will be part of the snake. First version of map is in the tech thread.

[Amicalola]

On a small map I think Pro and Org lose a lot of value, as there won't be many cities; I don't think other traits will help with whatever I'm doing apart from a big Prae attack. But again, with my lack of experience with CtH, suggestions/disagreements/pointing out that I'm straight up wrong would be very welcome

I think on the small map PHI probably gets a lot stronger, because an academy powers nearly all your research power, and PHI scales very poorly with no. of cities. I'm not sure if you've read the patch notes for CtH, but PHI is also considerably buffed for the mod. So Alexander could be a very strong (and as-yet unpicked!) option, if you like the sound of that.

[naufragar]

On a small map I think Pro and Org lose a lot of value, as there won't be many cities; I don't think other traits will help with whatever I'm doing apart from a big Prae attack. But again, with my lack of experience with CtH, suggestions/disagreements/pointing out that I'm straight up wrong would be very welcome

Amica's given the strong argument for Phi. Apart from Cre, which you mentioned, the others I'd consider are Imp and Cha.

Imp looks like it gets us to the contested border faster (or at the same time but with an additional defender). Losing settler races to both neighbors is probably devastating. Imperialistic's doubled Great General points are very strong too.

The draft map is very luxury poor. It gives everyone gold and then players compete for fur and ivory (+calendar lux). Charismatic happiness would make up a large portion of a city's capacity.

Edit: I haven't run the numbers, but my gut tells me Fin is not going to be good.

[yuris125]

Yeah Phi was very strong in Pitboss 50, but that was RTR, where I think it was even stronger. I picked Fin for Pitboss 50, thinking that with the amount of coast I would have to work it would pay off, but others players criticised the pick, and looking back I think they were right. And it looks like Fin is weaker in CtH, not giving a commerce bonus from water tiles until a lighthouse is built

Interesting re Imp, I thought it wouldn't be strong enough when I think it will be 4-5 cities per player, so 3-4 settlers to build. Good points that winning settler races and getting cities going sooner will be beneficial. My biggest concern with Imp is that cast majority of its power is in the early game, and I'd like a trait which will help me going once the era of Praetorians is over

Cha I thought was too early-game focused as well, but great point re how happiness-poor the map is. We will likely have to heavily rely on HR for happiness, but getting away with fewer units for MP will be valuable

Of course, someone will manage happiness by building Pyramids and using Representation. Could be us? Maybe Ind is an option?

In any case, I do like the sound of Alex, think he will be my first choice if available

[yuris125]

So we have the 3rd pick

If Rome is gone, we can take Zulu. The map doesn't look as hostile to 2-movers as I thought it was at first glance, and Agg Impi can do work as well

If both are gone, maybe we should look at civs with strong defensive options and try to weather the storm against those Rome and Zulu players

[naufragar]

Gotta be honest, my eyes glazed over when reading about the way the snake pick order works. Civ, leader, and position are all possible picks when the order comes to us? If so, we might want to do some simming. The Northeast position has 3 pre-improvement 4foodhammer tiles, whereas the other positions only have 1.

[yuris125]

Snake pick is the usual, can pick anything at any time - whatever we prefer. Although starts were last picks for everyone in 50, so I assumed it would be the same here

I admit I glossed over the NE start, thinking it had the weakest food resources when improved; another worry is that in always war settings, having forested food resources could make us more vulnerable to choking. Also, there's few opportunities to get better food resources with future cities - pigs are jungled, we would basically have to rely on seafood and deer for food. Since we're thinking of taking Alex as the leader, I think higher food yields are important to leverage Phi

That said, I agree that this start is interesting and worth thinking about more than I did. Could be one of those rare starts where opening workboat-warrior and growing to 4 before starting foodhammer units would work well. Do need to test how the opening plays out - and to be honest, I'm not much of a simmer

I would still take Rome first if Thoth doesn't take it, then evaluate if we'd rather take a leader or a start on the second pass, since we considered several possible leader picks, and the NE start could indeed be advantageous for early aggression

PS Amica asked to dedlurk Miguelito instead, so Nauf, we're on our own without him

[yuris125]

Well, rip my first choice

With Commodore taking an Agg leader, and Thoth taking Rome, I think we should consider a defensive, economy-oriented option, which can survive an early rush

I think Commodore also recognised lack of happiness on the map, first picking a Cha leader. Maybe we should consider Pro? I don't think CtH protective bonus to trade routes will shine on a small map, but maybe just having Pro will make our aggressive neighbours look elsewhere for their early invasion target? Alternatively we could stick with the Phi plan and take Sitting Bull. If you think Pro would be a waste, I can get behind Phi/Cha (Lincoln) or Phi/Cre (Pericles) as well