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Removing city curses

I'm not sure if we had a discussion on this before or not but pretty much the problem is this :

While there are many things a player can do to prevent city curses - diplomacy, denial of enemy scouting, etc - there isn't much they can do after the fact. In general nothing short of completely eliminating the enemy player works efficiently and this can be more of a problem now with higher enemy counts and due to map distances, a much higher opportunity cost of these kinds of wars.

I'm posting this now because I have a new idea how to solve this so I'll make a list of all the ideas gathered the past months and what I think of them.

1. Pay a bribe (gold) for dispelling city curses while in a peace treaty.
This is a reasonably good solution that still comes with a cost for the player as a punishment for not preventing the city curses in the first place.
While gold in general isn't as valuable as casting skill the city curse already did damage to your cities so from the AI's perspective, that damage + the profits make it a fair deal in exchange for the casting opportunity cost.
The main issue I see is how the curses attack player economy in the first place so in the case you need it most, it's already too late and it won't save you...but that might be for the best.

2. AI cancels the curses for free during the peace treaty.
This was what the original game did.
Not a fan, it's easy to abuse and there is no compensation for the AI for all the casting skill used.
Still it might be worth considering to make this possible as a modding.ini feature even if it's off by default.

3. AI cancels the curses gradually during peace/wizard's pact/alliance.
This is a softer version of the above. While the AI still gives up the curses for free, it also encourages the player to maintain the good relations with the wizard instead of backstabbing them after the curses are gone. It also punishes the players who let things escalate too far as it's only a good solution while there aren't too many curses yet.
I currently think this is the best possible solution but only for wizard's pact and alliance relations, as normal peace treaties are too easy to get.
I also think the rate of curse removal should be in modding.ini, and different for each treaty status, maybe around 0.75 curses removed per turn for pacts and much more (3-5) for alliances.

4. AI spells are easier to dispel while they are banished.
While the others are diplomatic solutions, this would be the military one. Conquering every single city to eliminate curses is too much to ask for, and conquering the fortress only to remove them automatically for free is too powerful considering how the game's systems make multi-stage attacks almost impossible to defend against, even in the fortress city. However if banishing a wizard would make all their spells easier to dispel, pushing Disenchant Area into the economically viable solution area, that's good enough.
The best way to implement this is probably a DispelResistance.CAS modding file with a default of 1/3 resistance for city spells and 75% resistance for everything else for banished wizards.
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I think 1 is the best option here, but I also would love dispelling strengths in general to be moddable. So I support a mix of 1 and 4.
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A combination of option 1+4 is best IMO.

maybe the trade screen can be improved to work like in civ4: allow trading gold/spells artifacts/ curse removal/ go to war with/ make peace with for each of the other ones? I know it might be hard to implement. so maybe just a partial implementation? whatever is easier.
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Removing individual city debuffs with bribery sounds like too little of an effect. If (1.) is about all curses of one wizard, the cost would still be unnecessarily difficult to calculate. I think bribery improves the relation. Harmony-relation needs all curses removed, one would expect, right? One more martial way besides defeating the opponent sounds interesting. Curses from a banished enemy should be easier to disenchant... but then what about global enchantments?
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Between 1-3, I'd go for 3 perhaps, but with a percentage based rate of removal depending on the map size or number of cities or something.
4 is a separate case I think and I like it.
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One detail I just realized about 1 - peace treaties have a finite and unknown (to the player) duration. Failing to pay for the removal of spells in time leads to the spells staying and with the treaty duration exceeded, no way to reactivate the chance other than threatening the wizard successfully or starting a new war and ending it with a new peace.
There is nothing in the game that can be used to distinguish a non-treaty relation before war when the AI just started using curses on you and looks for a chance to attack, and the non-treaty relation after the war ends and the peace treaty simply expires. There is also nothing in the diplomacy data to tell apart normal peace treaties form "other" peace treaties granted by other diplomacy features (threatening the wizard for example) which aren't really a peace treaty but have the same effect (the AI can't attack you).
So this one has some problems both on the coding side and the transparency towards the user.
(There is a hint for peace treaty duration in the game now but it's not an exact turn count, and I bet 95% of the players don't know about it)

The other two options dodge this problem by being an automatic removal without player interaction so there is no need for the player to know how long the peace treaty lasts and/or the other treaties are permanent and have no such problem anyway.
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3 and 4 are pretty good ideas that would blend in nicely. If you have to choose one option, I like 3 the best.

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(November 15th, 2022, 10:11)Seravy Wrote: I'm not sure if we had a discussion on this before or not but pretty much the problem is this :

While there are many things a player can do to prevent city curses - diplomacy, denial of enemy scouting, etc - there isn't much they can do after the fact. In general nothing short of completely eliminating the enemy player works efficiently and this can be more of a problem now with higher enemy counts and due to map distances, a much higher opportunity cost of these kinds of wars.

I'm posting this now because I have a new idea how to solve this so I'll make a list of all the ideas gathered the past months and what I think of them.

1. Pay a bribe (gold) for dispelling city curses while in a peace treaty.
This is a reasonably good solution that still comes with a cost for the player as a punishment for not preventing the city curses in the first place.
While gold in general isn't as valuable as casting skill the city curse already did damage to your cities so from the AI's perspective, that damage + the profits make it a fair deal in exchange for the casting opportunity cost.
The main issue I see is how the curses attack player economy in the first place so in the case you need it most, it's already too late and it won't save you...but that might be for the best.

2. AI cancels the curses for free during the peace treaty.
This was what the original game did.
Not a fan, it's easy to abuse and there is no compensation for the AI for all the casting skill used.
Still it might be worth considering to make this possible as a modding.ini feature even if it's off by default.

3. AI cancels the curses gradually during peace/wizard's pact/alliance.
This is a softer version of the above. While the AI still gives up the curses for free, it also encourages the player to maintain the good relations with the wizard instead of backstabbing them after the curses are gone. It also punishes the players who let things escalate too far as it's only a good solution while there aren't too many curses yet.
I currently think this is the best possible solution but only for wizard's pact and alliance relations, as normal peace treaties are too easy to get.
I also think the rate of curse removal should be in modding.ini, and different for each treaty status, maybe around 0.75 curses removed per turn for pacts and much more (3-5) for alliances.

4. AI spells are easier to dispel while they are banished.
While the others are diplomatic solutions, this would be the military one. Conquering every single city to eliminate curses is too much to ask for, and conquering the fortress only to remove them automatically for free is too powerful considering how the game's systems make multi-stage attacks almost impossible to defend against, even in the fortress city. However if banishing a wizard would make all their spells easier to dispel, pushing Disenchant Area into the economically viable solution area, that's good enough.
The best way to implement this is probably a DispelResistance.CAS modding file with a default of 1/3 resistance for city spells and 75% resistance for everything else for banished wizards.

Agreed. Also
5. Increase the casting cost of those city curse spells
6. Increase the maintenance cost of those city curse spells
7. Lower the AI handicap: so AIs don’t get huge pile of mana and gold for free every turn. To compensate for it, keep developing better AIs that play better rather than just lean on their huge handicap. (long term development objective)
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3+4 is my vote. Kind of dumb if they just immediately remove all the spells, I agree. But over time makes good sense to me.
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Another possible option: curses can become temporarily ineffective as long as you have a peace treaty, pact, or alliance with the casting wizard. When relations get neutral or hostile again, the curses resume their effects.
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