RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[Maniac Marshall]

Did I say I was gone for the weekend? Well, yeah, I *WAS* except half way to my son's we stop for pizza. This was not really what I wanted, but, I had wanted to leave earlier, when there were other things still open. Unfortunately, my gf had other "plans" and we left several hours later than I wanted. At least this place has a really good salad bar. So, we go in, order, and I go to the bathroom. I come out and head for the salad bar, and they have taken it down for the evening while I was in the bathroom...

Yeah, I was pissed. We'd already ordered other food, and they'd started cooking it, so it was too late to just say screw it, we'll go to Denny's, which I WOULD have done otherwise. Now I'm stuck paying for food I'm too angry to want to eat. To top it off, they TRY to charge me for the damn salad bar! It is safe to say, that I will NOT be going back to that place ever.

You would think that would be the worst part of the evening, but no, that comes immediately afterward when we stop at the gas station nearby, and the car will not restart after getting gas. Will not attempt to turn over even, so it's obviously not the battery, which is less than 2 years old. Officer Bob comes by and offers to try to jump us. I'm 99.5% sure that's a complete waste of time, because it's logically the starter, but, hey, what do I have to lose?


... definitely the starter. So, after we push the explorer out of the way, just as we're about to walk across the road and find out (conjecture, but the way the day is going, probably true) that they have no rooms available, a mechanic happens to come by and ask us what's wrong with the car. I tell him it won't turn over, it's probably the starter. He says hmm, can I hear it when you try to start it? ... Yep, it's the starter. He produces a hammer and says he thinks if he pecks away at the starter while I attempt to crank it, it'll start, and we can drive it back home... peck... peck... peck... VROOM!

Sweet! After a really awful day (full of other -in the scheme of things minor but still annoying- things that I won't bother to relate, something has finally gone right?

Eh, no, I look down at my phone and it's 5 after midnight Something did go right, but not until the next day!

Anyway, I'm back home for the moment. Now we have to set back out for my son's at like 8AM in the Skylark, and try to get the starter on the Explorer fixed on Monday.

Could have been worse. As many times as that car goes back and forth to Atlanta (10hr drive) it could have broke down in the middle of Western Kentucky at 3AM, but meh, still sucked. I guess the moral of this story is this is why Civ Players do/should not bother with explorers...

[Maniac Marshall]

Sweet! I was parroting something I read somewhere, and had never tested this.

We can "worry" about an embarassment of riches if it happens, but ... any wonder in particular for which you would like to use an engineer?

If I had one this turn, Notre Dame, but in the future? SoL? Space Elevator? Eiffel Tower? Heck, Hagia Sophia, though it's getting a bit late for that probably, Maybe Sistine, though that might not be so useful.

Note that as I mentioned above, I expect we'll have to run a merchant for a few turns, so there'd be a small chance of getting one of those too. (I'd definitely burn a merchant on a golden age in this case.) Note also that Smithsonian will have basically a 30% chance of getting an engineer (60% scientist, 10% artist) about six turns after the Kilrah GP if we don't "pollute" Smith's pool. (Sooner, of course, if we do.)

In the very rare event we get TWO Engineers, we DEFINITELY rush SoL

We probably can't get along without more workers, especially since we'll be giving one away shortly. If it speeds things up to do without missionaries however, Fierias can build one for Savannah that will complete turn 144, and another for Marble Garden Zone that will complete turn 147.

We're committed to the missionaries now, and it's really fine. We finish one in Temminck in 2 turns, and another whipped into a worker in FS the turn after. We're taking advantage of FS's ability to do 10 or 11 surplus food in the near term by whipping it back to where 40 food in the box grows it to make it regrow every other turn effectively.

We're actually in pretty decent shape for improved tiles in our core cities now after the whippings, but at our newer cities, we're growing faster than we can improve stuff! The city that is really suffering is Thundara, which needs those FP's improved yesterday, but currently has NO workers assigned to it.

Note that Savannah will not be built until at least turn 142 (in-game signs show you already realize this, but it conflicts with the culture plan you posted up-thread).

Yeah, I realized I'd misread that. No problem we'll have a plains mine ready for it on T142, so it'll pop boarders in 2 turns

Whoever plays the next turn, please note there is a barb warrior east of Pride Rock. Where he came from, I dono.

I said somewhere in this thread, parroting unconfirmed comments again, that barbs can't spawn within 2 tiles of units/borders even in FoW. I was wrong. They can *at least* spawn 2 tiles away diagonally, and *might* just be able to spawn anywhere in FoW.[/quote]

Ah, ok.

I agree with Morgan.

I expected you would. Note we're making 405 beakers this turn BEFORE Sankore, and Sankore will be worth roughly 30bpt

I logged into the game (successfully!) but didn't change anything. Gotta go, but I'll hopefully be back sometime this weekend.

Glad you didn't change off the gold at Ornata (I've micro'd the food to make working it this turn work out) or off the grass hill to the gems hill at FS (those 2 extra hammers ARE needed), and even happier that you can log in again. In the next few days, maybe we can set up a chat to talk about our empire over all, and what we're planning as far as national wonders and long term civics goals (I've been told by many people that unless we plan to run corporations, the ONLY way to go is State Property) and how we think we're going to try to win this thing.

[Morgan]

A hammer to the starter motor is a trick i've used a few times, not recently mind. I seem to remember its easy to slot a new one in on most engines, didn't Arnie fit one in Terminator 2 to a Ford Explorer? Didn't seem to take him long at all.

Just looked up a skylark - wow, nice to see a 'compact' with a 3.2l engine.

Anyway i'm around, waiting for an oppertuinity to log in

[Maniac Marshall]

Unfortunately, I'm not mechanically inclined, although as much as I've driven over the years, probably more that 95% of the US population, I've experienced virtually everything that can go wrong with a car so when something does go wrong, I usually know what it is from logic and or past experience. I knew of the trick, but in the darkness with no light source or anything to hammer with, I wasn't going to try it when there was a dealer half a mile away that could probably do something with it in the morning.

Hopefully Ref can get spreadsheets done for Temminck and FS soon, and eventually other cities, and I won't have to play as many turns. The problem right now is *I* know what I'm doing with the cities, but trying to write it all up and explain which worker actions are critical (most of them at the moment because we're shorthanded on workers X_X) would take 5X longer than just doing it myself.

I do have a feeling war will eventually be comming, so at the least, you'll get to be general with our armies at some point

[Maniac Marshall]

I was kind of hoping that with PB2 ending, we'd actually get a few lurkers (besides T-Hawk, who I know does lurk this game), but it doesn't seem it's happened.

I've asked this before, and not even gotten crickets to chirp, but I'll try again. If there are any of you mythical beasts™ called lurkers out there, is there anything you want to know about our empire, future plans, relations with other empires, or global politics in general? Any screen shots you would like to see? Or, in short, is there anything I can do for you?

With my other teamates being busy a lot, I get lonely spamming to myself here and would gladly try to provide whatever information would be useful to you in keeping up with the game.

I'm now trying that leaving for the weekend thing again. Wish me better luck.

[RefSteel]

Maniac - All I can say is, I'm glad you got through that day intact ... and that it's over!

I guess the moral of this story is this is why Civ Players do/should not bother with explorers...

Heh. But: I've built one in every Civ game (er, three so far) I played through optics. That will change when we eventually get Optics in this game though, as the only reason I did so was to stick 'em on Caravels. And between the 3 games, I built a total of 4 Explorers. (And, for the record, including this game, zero swords. I built a Gallic Warrior in my very first game, as Brennus, quickly realized how "useful" that unit type would be, and promptly named the old highlander "There Can Be Only One.")

Anyway i'm around, waiting for an oppertuinity to log in

Morgan - I think Maniac and I haven't said this enough yet: Thank you very, very much for agreeing to join our team - and for being so patient with our lunacy. For my part, I'm sorry for hogging so much of the conversation around here. Had we known that the game would be paused and slowed so much as to (almost) allow us to keep up with it, we wouldn't have asked so desperately for help in the first place, and I'm still grateful that you agreed to join us even though we might still have muddled through. I understand unexpected real-life issues have limited your time, so I'm glad things did develop the way they did, but if and whenever you want to take on a larger role, please, please, please don't feel intimidated by my lengthy blather.

Hopefully Ref can get spreadsheets done for Temminck and FS soon,

I'm hoping you have a very liberal definition of "soon." The spreadsheets I have *do* perform most of the calculating, but they're jury-rigged to work for each city and to an extent for specific builds. Creating a new one will not take as long as the very first one did, but still takes way, way longer than playing around with an extant one. I should have done this ages ago during the time I spent fighting with the sandbox. "Confound you, NO, a forest did NOT grow there in the game that turn! And Rome did NOT found a city three tiles from Feng Shui! How many times do I have to open Worldbuilder before you listen to me?!"

The problem right now is *I* know what I'm doing with the cities, but trying to write it all up and explain which worker actions are critical (most of them at the moment because we're shorthanded on workers X_X) would take 5X longer than just doing it myself.

I also find this to be the case, as noted (somewhere way) upthread. The reason I didn't change anything in-game when I logged in was in large part that I knew you had specific plans for everything. It's very, very helpful to post details of what one's plan is when it's happening so that others on the team can spot problems and/or optimize it, but as long as you say, "I've got Temminck and Feng Shui right now," I know not to mess with them. The reason I love the new spreadsheets so much is that it makes it easy to plan and describe the plan simultaneously.

I was kind of hoping that with PB2 ending, we'd actually get a few lurkers (besides T-Hawk, who I know does lurk this game), but it doesn't seem it's happened.

This is probably my fault. Our thread is a lurker's dream in some ways - we talk about most of what we're doing in great detail, with lots of pictures and everything - but in other ways, a lurker's nightmare. They have to scroll past walls and walls of text (i.e. my blathering).

[RefSteel]

If I had one this turn, Notre Dame, but in the future? SoL? Space Elevator? Eiffel Tower? Heck, Hagia Sophia, though it's getting a bit late for that probably, Maybe Sistine, though that might not be so useful.

SoL is neat, but EXPENSIVE. HS is terrific if you can rush it right after Engineering in a slow-tech game, but it's nigh-worthless this close to Steam. Sistine and ET are nice if we're going for culture, but a culture win should be impossible in this game (which is why I'm half hoping Krill pulls one off anyway). I have no experience yet with Space Elevator (we should be close enough to the "equator," I think) and don't know the cost/benefit off the top of my head. Even at this tech pace though, isn't that a *long* way away?

I've never yet used a corporation in any of my games. Do we have enough resources to make Mining Inc worthwhile?

We're committed to the missionaries now, and it's really fine.

That's fine with me. Does that cover Thundara, Savannah, and Marble Garden Zone? If so, I'll have to change the capital's plan slightly. Won't affect the timing of the Settler.

Thundara, which needs those FP's improved yesterday, but currently has NO workers assigned to it.

That's about to change though, right? HV is just about ready to roll (though of course it would like cottages on its grasslands eventually).

No problem we'll have a plains mine ready for it on T142, so it'll pop boarders in 2 turns

Sounds great!

I expected you would. Note we're making 405 beakers this turn BEFORE Sankore, and Sankore will be worth roughly 30bpt

Then I'm glad we're not revolting before our golden age.

Glad you didn't change off the gold at Ornata (I've micro'd the food to make working it this turn work out) or off the grass hill to the gems hill at FS (those 2 extra hammers ARE needed)

Hmm. I'm somewhat concerned because I don't recall Ornata working its gold tile, and I would have thought I'd have noticed if Feng Shui wasn't working its gems, but I may just be recalling things incorrectly. I didn't touch them, but since apparently the game turned on Avoid Growth all by itself once already just because it hates us, you might want to check and make sure everything's in order when and if the games comes back up again.

In the next few days, maybe we can set up a chat

Setting up a chat is virtually impossible for me right now. Hopefully we can manage with this forum, where perhaps our resident mythical beasts will be interested in our overall view of our empire as well. The point about State Property is probably true; game designers have a bad habit of combining an overpowered trait/ability/civic/whatever with a crippling penalty and pretending that solves the problems for both when in fact it keeps them all and often adds new ones.

[Sareln]

Speaking as one of those mythical creatures...

• The large number of teams make the game intrinsically difficult to follow.
  
• Huge threads make it hard to just jump on in and start following.
  
• Walls of text are fine, but they need pictures, paragraph breaks, and other visual aids for the reader's sake.
  

So I suppose if you wanted to attract some lurkers, I'd throw up a map of the known world, a diplomatic summary, your current grand strategy and then the turn's minutia.

Now I'm going to go wander off and follow my own advice in the FfH PBEM .

[T-hawk]

I was kind of hoping that with PB2 ending, we'd actually get a few lurkers (besides T-Hawk, who I know does lurk this game)

This is probably my fault. Our thread is a lurker's dream in some ways - we talk about most of what we're doing in great detail, with lots of pictures and everything - but in other ways, a lurker's nightmare. They have to scroll past walls and walls of text (i.e. my blathering).

It's great for lurker reading, not always so much for posting. Half the time when I think of something to comment on, I keep scrolling and one of the team's players has already said it. I'm sure I'm not the only reader who experiences that.

[Azoth]

Another mythical beast, checking in!

I've actually been lurking this thread since the very beginning (I found my way here after reading some of your Master of Orion reports, RefSteel) and I must say it has been thoroughly entertaining. Keep up the good work! I haven't commented so far not because I was intimidated (as if!) but because I didn't want to interrupt the flow of such a well-kept thread - an aesthetic preference, as it were. But since you insisted, here I am.

Is there something I'd like to see more of? Well, yes, some broader, empire-wide observations and analysis would be nice.
(If you can justify spending the time, of course.)
For example: You have been complaining about a lack of workers just about forever. But you haven't expanded particularly far... which is to say, your rivals have generally been ahead in city count (I think?) and now they are settling cities right up to your borders. So what seems to be the problem? Are you actually building farms and then replacing them with cottages... everywhere? (And has that been worthwhile?) Or is it just a matter of rough terrain? (floodplains, jungle...) For that matter, just how many workers have you built so far?

That's quite a lot of questions coming from me. Feel free to respond, or not.
I suppose I'm one of few people wonkish enough to appreciate the answers.