[PB64] naufragar's bingo parlor for assassins

[naufragar]

Post Mortem Part 2

It looks like this pitboss will be produce an equally random successor with roughly the same cast. It’s tempting to write a post mortem justifying my actions and trying to convince people I’m not as

pants-on-head retarded

As I might have seemed. But after thinking for a minute, I suspect there’s no way one post is going to change what the upcoming pitboss’s players think. Gavagai, Pindicator, Superdeath, Magic Science, Commodore? Yeah, not convincing them of squat.

I also think the narrative of the game is clear enough that I don’t need to rehash it in epilogue.

Over the course of this game, I truly angered about half the field (Ginger, Gav, Amica). I thought about putting down “my side” but honestly, the game’s done and me with it. PB64 was exhausting and I want it in the rearview.

So instead, I’ll take a cue from one of my personal heroes:


I’m going to present six important decisions in the game that I made but didn’t report (or underreported). Hopefully it adds value:

1. Founding Judaism


Notice how I researched Polytheism on turn 59 1 turn after Sailing on 58? I had most of the research for Hinduism done when Gav beat me to it by a couple turns, so I put it on the back burner. I decided I could pick up a religion for a low opportunity cost since I wanted to be in that section of the tree for Ziggurats anyway and Organized Religion was an amazing civic for border pops and hammers on this hammer poor map. No regrets about that at all.

And then, which I truly underreported, I was able to shrine the Jewish holy city for a massive +25gpt at game end. (For reference, my Org trait was getting me +49gpt. So that one shrine was half my trait. ) Admittedly, Commodore helped here, since Judaism was his state religion, but the shrine would’ve still been a massive help. Ginger never got around to shrining his Buddhist city (and then I burned it). I don’t know if Ginger shrined his Hindu one, but I’m pretty sure Superdeath didn’t shrine the Confucian holy city. On a map this commerce poor, the shrine income was a life-saver. (So, Gav, my economy was even more pathetic when you subtract out the shrine income.)

2. Great People

Misc
Great people born

1. Ginger (PRO) = 12
   
2. Commodore = 6
   
3. Amicalola (PRO) = 5
   
4. Superdeath (FIN) = 3
   
5. naufragar (FIN, ORG) = 2
   
6. Gavagai (AGG) = 2
   

The shrine discussion leads us on to my great people strategy, another unreported decision. I didn’t put food into great people. This was for two reasons. First, I didn’t feel like I had the food surplus in the early to mid-game to justify it (and then I got bogged down in world war). Second, I figured that with Financial and Org, my tiles were a better use of my pop points than specialists. That was more of a gut instinct, so who knows if it was correct. The end result is that I only birthed two: one for my shrine and one for…I can’t remember. Golden age, maybe? I had distant thoughts of maybe trying for a second golden age in 25-30 turns when the game ended.

3. Calendar First

Ya if I was Nauf I would be going for construction instead of Calendar..... Vultures backed up by cats will do just fine.

Or declare war while teching calendar. Good old Nauf.

Currency first is my natural inclination. Mjmd in the lurker thread suggested Construction, but that would’ve been too aggressive even for me. Instead, I went with Calendar, which unlocked 3 happiness resources (dye, spices, sugar), which was massive on this pretty luxury poor map. It was also a tactical consideration:

I wanted to be able to use this city productively and pin down “my” end of the jungle pass. No idea if Currency or Construction were better, but I trusted that, as Fin/Org, I wasn’t going to crash my economy before Currency.

4. Gav Diplo 1: The Attack on Amica

I was planning to attack Amica with Maces. At the time, I was the tech leader building Zigs and Amica was stagnant (I think). I felt that a timing attack with Maces would crack Amica’s side of the jungle, which I could then hold and eventually cause game-winning pressure on the joint between his mainland and northeastern peninsula. Using gold timers, Gav suggested a quick timeline for a joint attack. I replied with a longer one, and he insisted on the short. I had a choice: accelerate or lose Gav as an ally. I decided early with Gav was better than later without (or with him annoyed). So I bent my civ to an early attack. Those of you wondering why my attack seemed so puny, this is why. It’s also one of the reasons I was so upset that Gav backed out. I was marching to his timing, which was unhealthy for my civ and he hung me out to dry. I never reported any of the gold timers.

5. Gav Diplo 2: The attack on Gav

One decisive historical event in PB64 was Amica siding with me against Gav rather than with Gav against me. He’ll have his own reasons. When I first tried to war-peace Gav, Amica offered me a fish-for-fish. My read of Amica is that he’s more flexible than 100% blood feud all the time, so I believed that we could thaw relations after our most recent war. After all, I gave up a city for peace, so I suspected that he might not feel like he was totally out. I gave Amica open borders and then he echoed back a copper for copper timing deal. This was sufficient for me to empty my north and throw my army at Gav. I certainly opened myself up to a devastating backstab, but it wasn’t quite as reckless as maybe my shoddy reporting made it seem.

6. The Knight Attack into Castles and Pikes

Lurkers and at least one player were surprised that I launched a knight attack into Amica right as he finished getting castles up in all his cities and had built a force of pikes. The motives for the attack were several: 1) he had sucker punched me and prevented me from eating more of Gavagai. Good move, but one that called for a response. 2) He was hitting his stride and my tech rate dominance was about to be over. I had a slim window in which I had Knights and he didn’t. 3) He had positioned his collateral in such a way that left his southernmost city vulnerable. He couldn’t reinforce in time without exposing his cat stack to a devastating flanking charge.

But the real story was the maneuver, and unfortunately that went unreported by either of us. So, although one picture did appear in the report, you get to see screenshots from ~The Archives~ that never made it into the thread. (And now I’m going to delete my screenshots folder as I do after every game. It’s currently 2.75GB. )



I move my cav 1N of my slow movers. To advance in time to reinforce New Kemosabe, Amica’s collateral would have to stand on flatland with pretty much only horse archer guards and get slaughtered.

He does the best he can and moves it into Get to Heaven.



Unfortunately, that’s 4 tiles away from New Kemosabe (i.e. 2 turns of movement), which lets me move my slowmovers up.


Notice that New Wheels has been emptied to defend Get to Heaven. I move my northern knights forward. Fever Dream only has 4 pikes. The rest are spears, axes, xbows, which can’t attack out.


He retreats from New Kemosabe, which is burned. But his troops are still between New Wheels and Get to Heaven. I unite my Knights into 1 force, threatening Fever Dream again.


The stack is too big for Amica’s nearest cat stack to kill (and if he fails to kill, he’s lost his collateral and the game). And the sheer weight of Knights is enough to take Fever Dream.

So Amica pulls Fever Dream’s garrison back to New Wheels. I take Fever Dream, but did you notice the two combat workers on the jungle with my cavalry? They road the jungle, which enables them to race back South and again Amica’s main force is too far north to defend.


His spear cuts one road, but the fork is devastating. What fork? Well, if that monster pike army on my sign wants to defend Software Newman, they have to move a full three tiles to reach the Knights next turn. But that means we just plop a road on the desert hill and run the entire knight force and every other unit in the north to the hill 1SE of New Wheels and the pike defense is 4 tiles away and can’t defend. Amica must lose one city and he chooses the much less important Software Newman.

None of this went reported. Life was probably hectic at the time. Yes, yes, I’m recounting this now partly to stoke my ego. But there’s a larger strategic point: these were essentially nibbles as Amica himself pointed out. Once these three fell, I couldn’t make any more gains in the face of Get to Heaven’s fortress culture. And all these maneuvers were only possible because of the cultural reach of Cistercia. By the time of PB64 ending, Cistercia’s cultural was pushed one whole ring back by Get to Heaven. Maneuver warfare of this sort became impossible. Amica could sit behind his castles with his Protective gunpowder units and turn his research rate into a crushing advantage.

Eat your heart out, Tricky Dick.

[Tarkeel]

I’m going to present six important decisions in the game that I made but didn’t report (or underreported). Hopefully it adds value:

I approve.
(Of reporting the decisions, not Tricky Dick)

I really appreciate the last part; too often warfare ends up in smashing giant stacks into each other, but I believe there is room for maneuver warfare in civ4, but it usually requires good vision as well as movement.

[Gavagai]

With respect to number 4. As I recall, I was going to attack Amica anyway with a very limited purpose to fix my border. My messages to you were not an attempt to lure you into the war but rather just me informing you I am going to do it in case you want to capitalize on this. I would not be upset or surprised if you decided to sit it out.
I think, here is the root of our later misunderstandings, from the outset you perceived your attack as some great favor to me and expected me to pay it back while it never was so in my mind.

[Gavagai]

Oh, I recalled a funny thing that contributed to my decision to make peace with Amica back then. I recall I had some sort of scout, a chariot, I think, with your stack, and it got killed by Amica because you moved the stack away and left my unit uncovered. Since that point, I was completely in the dark with respect to your movements and could not know whether you are pressing on or retreating. Most likely, I would not make peace if I knew how much it would screw you over on a tactical level. But in reality, I did not even know whether you were still actively fighting and I was always keenly conscious of the fact that SD can dogpile on me at any moment. So I decided to go the safe road.

[Magic Science]

Post Mortem Part 2

Good post-mortem.

If you have the energy to present a seventh important unreported decision, what about your decision to never build any Wonders?

[Mjmd]

I know Amica was specifically curious about no AP.

[naufragar]

Yeah, Gav, we could write a comedy show with how badly we misunderstood each other over those few turns.

As for AP, Magic and Mjmd, I don't know. I generally never, ever build wonders. I remember building the Pyramids in PB62 at Rusten's suggestion and Stonehenge in '54 at Commodore's, but unless somebody suggests a neat play, I usually avoid wonders completely. They take away from Imperialistic settlers.

So I honestly have no clue how strong a monk economy I could've run. Does anybody have any reading suggestions where people pulled them off? (I seem to remember Mjmd did?)

But the larger issue was the hammers, yeah. My shrine didn't even have a market. 120 hammers for a market or a Frigate/Cannon plus some? And the answer was always military.

[superdeath]

And the answer was always military.

I getcha there.

[Amicalola]

Yeah, Gav, we could write a comedy show with how badly we misunderstood each other over those few turns.

As for AP, Magic and Mjmd, I don't know. I generally never, ever build wonders. I remember building the Pyramids in PB62 at Rusten's suggestion and Stonehenge in '54 at Commodore's, but unless somebody suggests a neat play, I usually avoid wonders completely. They take away from Imperialistic settlers.

So I honestly have no clue how strong a monk economy I could've run. Does anybody have any reading suggestions where people pulled them off? (I seem to remember Mjmd did?)

But the larger issue was the hammers, yeah. My shrine didn't even have a market. 120 hammers for a market or a Frigate/Cannon plus some? And the answer was always military.

In PB58 they were almost certainly one of the primary reasons were came back and won from behind. In PB56 too they carried a total dud start into a competitive position. +4 hammers (or +5 with a forge) per city per turn is a shitload, and then Sankore/Spiral Minaret just make things disgusting. I personally think they're the best wonders in the game, other than My Precious, but I've had multiple good experiences and might be biased.

With OR, it's pretty cheap to build the temples and monasteries. One 2-whip and like 5 turns of building (or just two consecutive 2-whips) will do it. But your land was really production poor, so it's hard to say. I suspect I would have tried in your position, but I am greedy, and overprioritise buildings. I might have just died to Amicalola, where you were able to not only hold your own but continuously burn down cities. The tactics you covered in your post-mortem really impressed me, btw. I constantly felt pretty hopeless against your knights, and I got so frustrated about Cistercia's culture.

Edit: Ahem. GG, also.

Edit edit: It was interesting how often you thought I could have steamrollered you, when I really didn't think so. I'm not sure who was right, probably both of us at various points, it's just interesting. I think it came down to perceptions of border: I thought your border position was really strong due to Cistercia, but it seems you thought it was really weak because of the two fronts. I guess my argument would have been that if I attacked down one end, there was nothing to stop you from pushing at the other. But maybe I was thinking about it wrong.