[PB69 SPOILERS] Magic Science and Nobody Else in Pitboss 69

[Magic Science]

Turn 2 to Turn 30 – 3960 BC to 2800 BC
   
The Known World
• Zhou Daguan the Scout popped 3 huts worth 20, 33, and 44 gold respectively. The last hut was a fortunate find, because it was only 3 tiles outside of BING-ac’s culture! I am pleased with this result. That free 97 gold will be worth a ridiculous amount of beakers eventually, of course, and none of my opponents will ever find out like they would if I got a free technology (like Commodore and naufragar did, curse those lucky bastards ). Also, the hut I found on Turn 0 is still safely there, waiting to be popped by culture on Turn 51. I feel optimistic. .
• My western neighbor is Commodore. My Scout met his Scout by the mountain pass by the Pig on Turn 6. My close southeastern neighbor is Gin-guelito. My Scout met their Scout by the Equator by the Wheat on Turn 11, and I then noticed their culture in the dark fog a little later, so I know exactly where they are (see “Iago 3S 2E”).
• Impressions: Gold and gold, great! Many mountains, arranged in ranges straight so actually IMPASSABLE except at the vital passes. Plains hills all around me. Sheep (Superdeath’s bane, apparently) all around me.


   
The Far East
I wrote my Opponent Analysis after Turn 27, when I noticed BING-ac’s unmistakable orange culture in the dark fog. The “very important decision” was what I should do with Zhou Daguan about that. Make contact or not? Keep going east or turn back west? I think I was overthinking it because I was overexcited about having the opportunity to apply my ideas about BING-ac’s possible special status as a rare food-tier player team in this game. . Of course, Zhou Daguan just made contact Turn 28, declared war to see Carthage itself Turn 29, and turned back west Turn 30, like normal.
Also, superdeath’s Scout appeared out of nowhere on Turn 28, so I met him too. BING-ac is so far away that I think superdeath might be the one I am really competing against for much of the land in the east (much of it still in the dark fog to the north of Zhou Daguan’s path), though I do think that I should at least directly border BING-ac eventually.
The fascinating thing is: superdeath has already met Commodore, and Commodore has already met BING-ac! Together our web of contacts has already circumnavigated the cylinder. Together with the unpopped Tribal Village by Carthage and superdeath’s Scout’s brief observed movement I think this implies something useful about the scouting patterns and starting locations of the three, but I cannot quite deduce what. .
Last note: the flying camera indicates that the sea by Carthage is barely large enough to not be a lake.


   
Home: Cambodia
The land to the north is inaccessible to my opponents like I thought, but it is smaller than I hoped. There are only 2 more rows of tile north of what my culture revealed, and there is no more land beyond what is plainly visible in the dark fog. However, there is an island, which is excellent! . Overall, the land to the north can fit 3 inexpensive yet nice commerce cities, and my opponents cannot rush me to settle them prematurely. I will send a unit to check for seafood later; I will not bother to fogbust the 1 tile that can spawn barbarians.

…

I did not muster the enthusiasm to perform as many opening simulations as I wanted. The same thing happened in Pitboss 66. Maybe I am a diminished man compared to Pitbosses 40 and 45. Or maybe my instincts are better now and such extensive simming is no longer necessary.
Anyway, I researched Agriculture then Animal Husbandry then The Wheel now Bronze Working. The Wheel seems odd even to me, but roads will speed my second Settler by 2 turns over the hills, and the trade connection is worth a lot for PRO me, and I need the roads for actually connecting my strategic resources anyway (there is probably Copper on the mined hill 1SW of Mei). I still feel alright about this research choice, and I feel good about the choice to not bother with Fishing and the lone Crab yet on this low-hammer start as well.


   
The Mountains (and Strategy)
(MORE).
Sorry for the bait and switch, but it is late and this report is long and I need to sleep. I will address this fascinating topic in the Turn 31 report. It’s not like the mountains will be any different next turn.


   
Extra.
I took this strange screenshot with the flying camera while trying to learn a little more about BING-ac’s surroundings. What are those things? What is happening? . Best guess: the unearthly light of Zhou Daguan’s unchosen promotion (donated by wolves) is shining on some jungle trees. But could it be a resource? I have wondered if those could be identified with the flying camera in the dark fog.

AND LASTLY: The “War Chariots” quest was triggered for me when I discovered The Wheel on Turn 27. Exciting! TWO QUESTIONS: One, what kind of messages will I see in the event log about this quest? Will I see if my opponents trigger it too, as they will with the new option (thanks again Charriu)? Will I see if they complete it? TWO: I found this thread on CivFanatics (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/r...st.236727/) that lists all the events and quests. Is there a better reference page anywhere?

[Charriu]

My guess is those are the top of palm trees from a jungle tile. I'm 99% sure that the unchosen promotion from units is not a lightsource, but rather a particle system.

[Magic Science]

Hello lurkers. . If I go a while without reporting like this again, feel free to politely poke me. I play better and feel better when I report, even if I sometimes forget it, so it will be good for all of us.


Turn 31 to Turn 45 – 2760 BC to 2200 BC
   
The Mountains (and Strategy (really this time))
There are two true mountain passes nearby. “The German Gate” in the west and “The Celtic Gate” in the southeast. They are one-tile-wide gaps through mountain ranges with no other way through or around for a significant distance in either direction. They are fascinating and vital.

I think these mountain passes are like “garrison multiplier places”. Normally human players “multiply” our units to defend multiple cities with them at once by threatening to attack invading stacks. That’s just basic tactics. We don’t just have small static garrison stacks in each city like an AI. However, these mountain passes let me do something similar without actually attacking, so my units can retain the use of their fortification, tile defense bonus, City Garrison promotions, etc. All 3 (only 1 actually settled yet, ) of my cities behind The German Gate can be defended from Commodore by a stationary stack of units in the pass. He either attacks into my ridiculous AGG/PRO Longbows or whatever, or he goes the long way around, which is nice for me too. The Celtic Gate is even more important in this way because the long way around for Gin-guelito is even longer, and the places the long way arrives at are frontline places that need units anyway. Controlling and fortifying The Celtic Gate basically expands my backlines I think, and it expands them towards BING-ac. That would otherwise be an awkward but important stretch for me. Excellent.

NB: To clarify, I know from fog gazing and camera flying that the mountains meet the coast north of The German Gate. The only way around overland is to the south.

Technically, I don’t need cultural control of even my half of either pass, because I could always just declare war and physically occupy it anyway. However, I think it is impractical to do that. Declaring war is too important as a signal in coalition warfare to stay at phony war for so long, and of course I cannot use roads in enemy culture.

Technically, it is interesting to consider the best thing to occupy my half of the pass with. Forest vs. Fort vs. City (Road always). Forest has the highest base irreducible multiplier, but it does not trigger city healing and promotion effects. Fort does trigger city effects, and is also irreducible, but the multiplier is only 25%. City of course triggers city effects, and the multiplier can grow highest, but it can be bombarded to 0%. . However, I think those neat comparisons are irrelevant because it is so important that the cities I claim the passes with also fit in my dotmap and contribute well. That will be what decides where they are placed and therefore what kind of tile feature will occupy my side of the pass.

…

Unfortunately, the city spots that are best for claiming the passes and the city spots that are best for accelerating development are not the same. To clarify, there are some nice city spots that claim the passes too, but the obvious best candidates for cities 3 and 4 are nowhere near the passes. One candidate is up north of Mei by the Copper and Cow (offscreen), and the other is over east between the Sheep and Cow.

NB: Superdeath is probably my straight eastern neighbor.

First question: should I delay some of the better spots away from the passes to claim the passes sooner?
Second question: should I claim the passes with slightly worse spots that control them better? For example, by The German Gate I could settle for Pigs and Gold first-ring, but with the pass third-ring, or with just Pigs first-ring, but the pass as well as Gold second-ring.
To answer those questions, I am scouting Gin-guelitos side of The Celtic Gate with Zhou Daguan (still alive and healthy) in the south and Commodore’s side of The German Gate with Nameless Warrior in the west. How close are they? How nice are their options for claiming the pass? How likely are they to settle in a way that is favorable or unfavorable for me? . Soon those questions will be answered.


   
This game is blazing fast, and my planning is minimal, and my opening feels weak. Food tier, here I come?

Anyway, I debated between settling Bie where it is or 1 tile west. The trade-off is first-ring Gold vs. second-ring Sheep (claimed on Turn 51 by Mei). I decided food-hammers soon were more important than commerce soon, because I already have so much. But how many times can I neglect commerce because I have “so much” before it is so longer true that I do? .

Research: Bronze Working, then Fishing, now Pottery. I researched Fishing for 2 turns in the middle of Bronze Working so Copper 1SW of Mei would not stop me from training another Warrior, but that proved to be irrelevant. That Tribal Village is still there, waiting for Turn 51. It may be possible to do some clever waiting or something to try to avoid having a technology partially finished at that time.

Production: A Warrior in Mei to free the other to explore, and then a Worker. Straightforward. A Barracks in Bie. That might be wrong, but it needed to grow, of course, and the Barracks feels so cheap with AGG. How many units must I build there how soon to make it worthwhile? Next up is a Chariot for defense.


   
Everyone knows everyone, except Gin-guelito does not know Commodore and superdeath. I saw naufragar’s Scout past The German Gate, and then saw his second city towards Gin-guelito in the far south.

Also, the Barbarians have an Archer now, but it is nowhere near me, so don’t worry. I forget what, if anything, this implies about opponent technology. .


   
Vanity.

My civilization is no longer the Khmer Empire, but the Cambodian Numeral System. My capital, “Mei” means “one” in Cambodian (as transliterated into Chinese by Zhou Daguan 800 years ago and then translated into English by Peter Harris in 2007), and my second city, “Bie” means “two”. I think you can see where this is going, . The naming theme will be more interesting if when I settle my sixth city (not six, but five-one) and if when I resettle razed cities (ordinal numbers). Also, I like how losing and gaining cities implies a horrific story of broken alien arithmetic. What does it mean for there to be the number Iago, the number Carthage? What does it mean to for there to NOT be the number three? But I am getting ahead of myself. But I like it. .

Meanwhile, Commodore has abandoned all pretense of civilized morality by giving his civilization a horrifically long adjective, “Bierzenimperialagartenalizur”. . Trust me, it even distorts the TOP 5 screen!

And naufragar confused me from afar over PBSPY, with “Hosavian Empire”, but as soon as I met him and saw the name of his capital it all made sense. “Hive of Scum and Villiany”. I like it. :rolf

[RefSteel]

Thanks for the game is looking like fun!

Technically, it is interesting to consider the best thing to occupy my half of the pass with. Forest vs. Fort vs. City (Road always). Forest has the highest base irreducible multiplier, but it does not trigger city healing and promotion effects. Fort does trigger city effects, and is also irreducible, but the multiplier is only 25%.

Just to note: Forest vs. Fort is a false dichotomy! When you place a fort on a forest tile, the forest remains in place, and continues to provide its +50% defensive bonus to units stationed on the tile unless/until the forest is chopped. I believe this effect is cumulative with the fort's +25% in your territory but haven't tested it lately.

[Amicalola]

Thankyou for the detailed report, it was very interesting. Although I admit, your opponent analysis was so intense that I'm not sure I quite understood it - big points for a creative format, though!

A couple of questions, if you can be bothered:

Where do you intend the 3rd city to go?
Why do you think your opening was weak?
This looks like great Baray land, even without EXP? (ok, that's not a question despite the punctuation. I just really like barays )

[Charriu]

AND LASTLY: The “War Chariots” quest was triggered for me when I discovered The Wheel on Turn 27. Exciting! TWO QUESTIONS: One, what kind of messages will I see in the event log about this quest? Will I see if my opponents trigger it too, as they will with the new option (thanks again Charriu)? Will I see if they complete it? TWO: I found this thread on CivFanatics (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/r...st.236727/) that lists all the events and quests. Is there a better reference page anywhere?

sorry totally missed your questions. Nothing has been changed with messaging. You do not get a message when they trigger a quest, but you do get a message when they complete a quest. That list looks complete to me.

[Magic Science]

For the record: I think anomalously early Barbarian Archers perfectly fit the spirit of a hyper-random game, but I understand that I am not the one suffering from their attacks, and I trust the lurkers to work out all the editing necessary.

For the lurkers: "Hello, you have reached Magic Science. He can't come to the thread right now, so just leave a message and he will get back to you as soon as he can. Thank you! ."

[Magic Science]

I think I should wait until after my Turn 51 to report, and I need to wait for naufragar to play first, but for now I cannot resist saying:

FREE WRITING! . .

[Magic Science]

Thanks for the game is looking like fun!

Technically, it is interesting to consider the best thing to occupy my half of the pass with. Forest vs. Fort vs. City (Road always). Forest has the highest base irreducible multiplier, but it does not trigger city healing and promotion effects. Fort does trigger city effects, and is also irreducible, but the multiplier is only 25%.

Just to note:  Forest vs. Fort is a false dichotomy!  When you place a fort on a forest tile, the forest remains in place, and continues to provide its +50% defensive bonus to units stationed on the tile unless/until the forest is chopped.  I believe this effect is cumulative with the fort's +25% in your territory but haven't tested it lately.

Thank you very much. I tested it, and what you said is correct. This is incredible! +100% irreducible defensive modifier at The German Gate! Unfortunately, this knowledge will be irrelevant at The Celtic Gate unless there is forest growth. .

AND LASTLY: The “War Chariots” quest was triggered for me when I discovered The Wheel on Turn 27. Exciting! TWO QUESTIONS: One, what kind of messages will I see in the event log about this quest? Will I see if my opponents trigger it too, as they will with the new option (thanks again Charriu)? Will I see if they complete it? TWO: I found this thread on CivFanatics (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/r...st.236727/) that lists all the events and quests. Is there a better reference page anywhere?

sorry totally missed your questions. Nothing has been changed with messaging. You do not get a message when they trigger a quest, but you do get a message when they complete a quest. That list looks complete to me.

Thank you too. The delay caused no problem.

Thankyou for the detailed report, it was very interesting. Although I admit, your opponent analysis was so intense that I'm not sure I quite understood it - big points for a creative format, though!

Too intense to understand. That is a fair response to my opponent analysis. . The idea was to try to be rigorous, but I think I caught lost in the weeds of the format and favored boilerplate over substance. The usual color-coding and funny images would have been good to include as well. However, I stand by most of my observations for now, especially about naufragar. In his self-analysis in PB64 he said he thought I had a good read on him back in PB45. .

This looks like great Baray land, even without EXP? (ok, that's not a question despite the punctuation. I just really like barays )

I love Barays too, or I want to love them at least, because “free” per-turn non-tile yields like they provide are just aesthetically pleasing somehow for some reason. I was thrilled to randomly receive Khmer for this game.

Actually, you inspired me to analyze Barays for a little while when I noticed you building them everywhere in PB66 even though I think conventional wisdom is that they are weak buildings. My conclusion is: I agree with you! This land will be good for them, even without EXP, though of course I still wish I was EXP. My idea is: Barays are important when there is no other way to get extra loaves of food, but extra loaves of food are still valuable. In my situation, that is the case. The food situation is merely normally natural, and there are not many Freshwater Grassland Flats to build a food surplus, but every additional loaf of food lets me work an additional Serfdom Plains Hill Windmill (oh yeah, Serfdom is the Way Of The Future ), and those are excellent tiles. Stated otherwise: there are more Plains Hills than food to work them, so food is the limiting factor, and Barays are the way to get more food.



Turn 46 to Turn 51 – 2160 BC and 1960 BC
   
(screenshot unrelated to topic below, but it’s just cool to see around the world so soon)

Hyper-random Occurrences.
The Healthy Herbal Event: I think this one happened to me, and I chose 10 turns of happiness? I think? ? It is not in the event log, but maybe it disappeared after a while, or maybe I am just confusing my real game with my simulation. .

The Cover Event: Commodore got this one, and now all his Melee units have free Cover. That could be very annoying at The German Gate; I just hope our respective unit compositions never quite mismatch in his favor. Maybe his situation is such that Horse Archers or War Elephants are the better choice to attack with anyway.

The Prairie Dog Event: A personal blast from the past. I used to think prairie dogs were so cool for some reason. I just remembered that now. In-game, just this means free commerce on Bie’s Flat Sheep tile. Excellent; I think it could have been any plains tile.

The Final Tribal Village: Again, FREE WRITING! I feel vindicated in my choice to wait and let my culture claim it. Better yet, this is sure to confuse some of my rivals, because getting a technology by popping a hut with culture happens exactly at the turn roll, just like getting a technology from hard work and dedication like usual. They are indistinguishable in PBSPY. .

The War Chariots Quest: This is the big one. Everyone knows about it now, probably. Build 8 Chariots and get 5 free religious spreads. This could be worth it. I think I want religion across my civilization soon, so I need 5 missionaries anyway, so this quest basically lets me get 8 Chariots for the price of 3. Chariots are not THAT much worse than the other military options. Still, this quest will need to last a while for me to have a profitable opportunity to claim it, and I will need to be careful about entering the Classical Era and therefore failing the quest.


   
I now know enough about the far side of both gates to answer my questions about them.

Me vs. Commodore at The German Gate: The situation here is favorable to me. It seems that Commodore will have 1 bad city at 2nd-ring to my half of the pass, while I will have 2 good cities, one at 2nd-ring and one at 3rd-ring, to my half of the pass. I think the southern sheep on his side will go to naufragar. I should be secure in enough cultural control to station units in a fort like I want, unless Commodore settles on my side for my Pig, but that would mean war, and he must know that too. Also, like I said, those cities are good cities, so I will not wait long to settle them anyway. EDIT: Also, a big thing is that he cannot disqualify my cities safely from his side.

Me vs. Gin-guelito at The Celtic Gate: …less favorable. I can settle a culture-pushing city on my side with some food for it that claims some new productive tiles, but no new food. (The food it would use is that northeastern Flat Plains Sheep, which is already set to be claimed by City #4). That culture-pushing city is unlikely to be disqualified by them because they probably want to settle for their Sheep and the Horse together. My other option is to aggressively press to the other side and settle for that Sheep, which would control the pass and secure new food. Maybe I can do it; I am Tokugawa. But they are Joao II. But I doubt that is “their” Horse because naufragar is so close, so they are probably not extremely possessive of it, or the nearby Sheep. .


   
Domestic

A couple of questions, if you can be bothered:

Where do you intend the 3rd city to go?

I settled my 3rd city, Bei (not to be confused with Mei or Bie, ) in the north between the Cow and Copper. It is slightly inferior to the eastern Sheep and Cow location, but it is closer, quicker, and cheaper, and I think I need Copper now. I do dislike settling such a safe spot so soon though.
Also, there is another Whale. Cool. Also, the need to avoid stepping on the Copper tile before Turn 51 made this awkward.

Why do you think your opening was weak?

Why is my opening weak? Well, the demographics seem fine for now, and I am on pace with the pack at settling new cities. However, I have done minimal simulation work, and I doubt that my skill is enough to do very well without them. The demographics will confirm or deny this in time.
Lack of confidence.

…

I discovered Pottery, obviously. Next is a Work Boat and a Granary in Mei to put all that food to good use with the whip. Next is a Worker and a Settler in Bie.

Next city if of course the Cow and Sheep in the east. I think the Chariot will go that way soon. Then I can see about strategic cities at the gates.

Technology: I am not sure. I am indecisive. You can see I am saving gold at the moment. . I saved gold for 3 turns after Pottery while waiting for the hut, which felt clever but was probably a mistake. This turn there is no excuse for not researching. Long-term, my land needs Monarchy and Machinery. Do I start down that long path now? Do I need anything else? I will detour to Sailing eventually, but it is unnecessary now. I think I want religion for culture options all along the mountains (lots of cities need good culture, not just one or two vital cities), and I could use happiness beyond just Gold, but Hinduism fell just now. Judaism via the long way to Monarchy? .


   
Lastly, Scouting.
The Warrior will return home to happily garrison Bie. His job is done.
The Scout will continue to explore the south. He will learn more details about my possible future targets. So far he has seen no human Barbarians, maybe thanks to all the culture vision down here, or maybe outright deleting some Barbarian Archers, which apparently happened, gave us a bit of a reprieve. Maybe that was in the spirit of a hyper-random game after all!
EDIT: It just occurred to me; Writing means Open Borders! I could offer naufragar Open Borders. .

[Amicalola]

FWIW, I can pretty confidently say that conventional wisdom on barays is wrong (if it is anti-), and will likely change in the future. In PB66, I did no real sims, had sloppy micro, low morale, and (relatively) weak land. What little relevance I had in that game was almost entirely due to them. And that was on a pretty high-food map; they're even better on stuff like this. That faster/extra population seriously adds up over time. Barays are sick buildings* and don't let anyone else on this forum tell you otherwise.   


*Well, ok, I admit they are a lot sicker with EXP.  But they're still good, I swear! You just gotta actually think before you build them, instead of them being auto-builds everywhere.