(January 8th, 2023, 07:09)MrBiscuits Wrote: I'm playing the mod again and it's great.
Just having a game with the lite version and noticed that building maintenance costs seem to add on gold as well as subtract it. Also 0% trade bonus shows negative gold.
Library, University, and Sage Guild add gold at same value as its maintenance cost if you have Sagemaster retort. it is part of retort's new ability (those education building pay for itself). You could technically gain more than pay when it stacking up with trade bonus which is intentional.
About trade bonus that go negative, I think it is weird but I it is possible that it cause by overcorrection formula I put in end up with negative number? I will look into it. May I request your savegame?
Ah yes I have sage master, I didn't realise that it provided gold as well for research buildings.
I have attached the save file, but had to rename it as a doc file to get it to upload, the negative trade bonus is in my capital.
Other things I've noticed is that production is very low with early cities. The mill and town hall don't add much production until a city is quite large, which means city growth is the most important thing to get your production increased. Maybe add +2 production to the mill and +3 to the town hall, or maybe add a workshop that just adds +4 production.
I don't really like being able to obtain spells from books you don't have. It makes spells like bless useless as even non-sorcery wizards could have confusion, so you can't risk your high value units until they can get 12 resistance.
(January 8th, 2023, 07:09)MrBiscuits Wrote: I'm playing the mod again and it's great.
Just having a game with the lite version and noticed that building maintenance costs seem to add on gold as well as subtract it. Also 0% trade bonus shows negative gold.
Library, University, and Sage Guild add gold at same value as its maintenance cost if you have Sagemaster retort. it is part of retort's new ability (those education building pay for itself). You could technically gain more than pay when it stacking up with trade bonus which is intentional.
About trade bonus that go negative, I think it is weird but I it is possible that it cause by overcorrection formula I put in end up with negative number? I will look into it. May I request your savegame?
Ah yes I have sage master, I didn't realise that it provided gold as well for research buildings.
I have attached the save file, but had to rename it as a doc file to get it to upload, the negative trade bonus is in my capital.
Other things I've noticed is that production is very low with early cities. The mill and town hall don't add much production until a city is quite large, which means city growth is the most important thing to get your production increased. Maybe add +2 production to the mill and +3 to the town hall, or maybe add a workshop that just adds +4 production.
I don't really like being able to obtain spells from books you don't have. It makes spells like bless useless as even non-sorcery wizards could have confusion, so you can't risk your high value units until they can get 12 resistance.
All wizards would get one random spells from each realm. This rule is added to make situation more chaotic and less predictable. If you play game too often you would able to guess what enemy could and would thrown at you from just list of spellbooks, retorts, and personality. I make this curve ball to make sure that player could not do accurate guess and have to met with nasty surprise.
About production, I will discuss this with others to see what they think.
(January 8th, 2023, 11:57)MrBiscuits Wrote: Other things I've noticed is that production is very low with early cities. The mill and town hall don't add much production until a city is quite large, which means city growth is the most important thing to get your production increased. Maybe add +2 production to the mill and +3 to the town hall, or maybe add a workshop that just adds +4 production.
Discussion with my comrades (Zitro and Anskiy) and it confirm that current balance is intentional as mid point between original MoM (too little) and CoM (too much). Not being able to produce much means that you can't really jump to the higher tier units from the Fighter's Guild too early and need to rely on basic summons and armory units more.
(January 8th, 2023, 11:57)MrBiscuits Wrote: Other things I've noticed is that production is very low with early cities. The mill and town hall don't add much production until a city is quite large, which means city growth is the most important thing to get your production increased. Maybe add +2 production to the mill and +3 to the town hall, or maybe add a workshop that just adds +4 production.
Discussion with my comrades (Zitro and Anskiy) and it confirm that current balance is intentional as mid point between original MoM (too little) and CoM (too much). Not being able to produce much means that you can't really jump to the higher tier units from the Fighter's Guild too early and need to rely on basic summons and armory units more.
The problem is that you can't really produce anything for a long time in new cities.
If you want to delay the fighter's guild you could make it more expensive, make it have more buildings required before you can build it or require the tree of knowledge.
(January 8th, 2023, 11:57)MrBiscuits Wrote: Other things I've noticed is that production is very low with early cities. The mill and town hall don't add much production until a city is quite large, which means city growth is the most important thing to get your production increased. Maybe add +2 production to the mill and +3 to the town hall, or maybe add a workshop that just adds +4 production.
Discussion with my comrades (Zitro and Anskiy) and it confirm that current balance is intentional as mid point between original MoM (too little) and CoM (too much). Not being able to produce much means that you can't really jump to the higher tier units from the Fighter's Guild too early and need to rely on basic summons and armory units more.
The problem is that you can't really produce anything for a long time in new cities.
If you want to delay the fighter's guild you could make it more expensive, make it have more buildings required before you can build it or require the tree of knowledge.
That is our intention. New city should not be profitable until some investment. In history, New city tend to rely on its mother city for a period of time. What you could do to rush thing up is spend money to buy building, you could get some from managing tax and looting the lair. You should not convert all gold to mana and need to manage amount meticulously. Your new city will be burden to your economy for a while until have much enough working population to support itself. If you want it to support itself quicker, focus on housing and using gold to buy key buildings.
(January 8th, 2023, 11:57)MrBiscuits Wrote: Other things I've noticed is that production is very low with early cities. The mill and town hall don't add much production until a city is quite large, which means city growth is the most important thing to get your production increased. Maybe add +2 production to the mill and +3 to the town hall, or maybe add a workshop that just adds +4 production.
Discussion with my comrades (Zitro and Anskiy) and it confirm that current balance is intentional as mid point between original MoM (too little) and CoM (too much). Not being able to produce much means that you can't really jump to the higher tier units from the Fighter's Guild too early and need to rely on basic summons and armory units more.
The problem is that you can't really produce anything for a long time in new cities.
If you want to delay the fighter's guild you could make it more expensive, make it have more buildings required before you can build it or require the tree of knowledge.
That is our intention. New city should not be profitable until some investment. In history, New city tend to rely on its mother city for a period of time. What you could do to rush thing up is spend money to buy building, you could get some from managing tax and looting the lair. You should not convert all gold to mana and need to manage amount meticulously. Your new city will be burden to your economy for a while until have much enough working population to support itself. If you want it to support itself quicker, focus on housing and using gold to buy key buildings.
I understand, but you can't buy your way to making a city productive, as it depends on having a reasonably sized population. So the most important factor is the population growth, which is more a factor of geography and race than user action, so fast growth races have a much larger advantage now.
Also it means if your starting city and surrounding area have low food city sites then you will struggle to catch up with your opponents as there's no ways to mitigate that with a sawmill etc.
(January 8th, 2023, 11:57)MrBiscuits Wrote: Other things I've noticed is that production is very low with early cities. The mill and town hall don't add much production until a city is quite large, which means city growth is the most important thing to get your production increased. Maybe add +2 production to the mill and +3 to the town hall, or maybe add a workshop that just adds +4 production.
Discussion with my comrades (Zitro and Anskiy) and it confirm that current balance is intentional as mid point between original MoM (too little) and CoM (too much). Not being able to produce much means that you can't really jump to the higher tier units from the Fighter's Guild too early and need to rely on basic summons and armory units more.
The problem is that you can't really produce anything for a long time in new cities.
If you want to delay the fighter's guild you could make it more expensive, make it have more buildings required before you can build it or require the tree of knowledge.
That is our intention. New city should not be profitable until some investment. In history, New city tend to rely on its mother city for a period of time. What you could do to rush thing up is spend money to buy building, you could get some from managing tax and looting the lair. You should not convert all gold to mana and need to manage amount meticulously. Your new city will be burden to your economy for a while until have much enough working population to support itself. If you want it to support itself quicker, focus on housing and using gold to buy key buildings.
I understand, but you can't buy your way to making a city productive, as it depends on having a reasonably sized population. So the most important factor is the population growth, which is more a factor of geography and race than user action, so fast growth races have a much larger advantage now.
Also it means if your starting city and surrounding area have low food city sites then you will struggle to catch up with your opponents as there's no ways to mitigate that with a sawmill etc.
That is what housing for. Also yes that geography really important to city, especially as human player, but as much for ai, their city growth faster, and even the most terrible location still useful for them as beacon for summoning circle.
I don't think growth rate is that decisive. It confers advantage but as ai get growth cheat and player could manage thing better, it is not beyond overcoming.
(January 9th, 2023, 06:30)Suppanut Wrote: Discussion with my comrades (Zitro and Anskiy) and it confirm that current balance is intentional as mid point between original MoM (too little) and CoM (too much). Not being able to produce much means that you can't really jump to the higher tier units from the Fighter's Guild too early and need to rely on basic summons and armory units more.
The problem is that you can't really produce anything for a long time in new cities.
If you want to delay the fighter's guild you could make it more expensive, make it have more buildings required before you can build it or require the tree of knowledge.
That is our intention. New city should not be profitable until some investment. In history, New city tend to rely on its mother city for a period of time. What you could do to rush thing up is spend money to buy building, you could get some from managing tax and looting the lair. You should not convert all gold to mana and need to manage amount meticulously. Your new city will be burden to your economy for a while until have much enough working population to support itself. If you want it to support itself quicker, focus on housing and using gold to buy key buildings.
I understand, but you can't buy your way to making a city productive, as it depends on having a reasonably sized population. So the most important factor is the population growth, which is more a factor of geography and race than user action, so fast growth races have a much larger advantage now.
Also it means if your starting city and surrounding area have low food city sites then you will struggle to catch up with your opponents as there's no ways to mitigate that with a sawmill etc.
That is what housing for. Also yes that geography really important to city, especially as human player, but as much for ai, their city growth faster, and even the most terrible location still useful for them as beacon for summoning circle.
I don't think growth rate is that decisive. It confers advantage but as ai get growth cheat and player could manage thing better, it is not beyond overcoming.
Yes housing helps, but again the rate of population growth with housing is mostly based on the max population for the city. Actually I would like to see this changed to be more a factor of production than max population, so housing is a good option for low food/high production cities.
I think a game mechanic that only negatively affects the player can be a bit frustrating. Yes the best players can overcome it, but it doesn't make it fun or balanced.
I just noticed that stables give +4 production, so they are by far the best production building early on as well as one of the best early military building for some races. Could some of this production be shifted to mill and town hall?
I think I found a bug, I built a fantastic stable in a dark elf city, but I still don't have access to nightmares.
Edit: Also I can research Sky Drakes which is a very rare before Uranus Blessing which is a rare, is that intended?
(January 9th, 2023, 11:43)MrBiscuits Wrote: The problem is that you can't really produce anything for a long time in new cities.
If you want to delay the fighter's guild you could make it more expensive, make it have more buildings required before you can build it or require the tree of knowledge.
That is our intention. New city should not be profitable until some investment. In history, New city tend to rely on its mother city for a period of time. What you could do to rush thing up is spend money to buy building, you could get some from managing tax and looting the lair. You should not convert all gold to mana and need to manage amount meticulously. Your new city will be burden to your economy for a while until have much enough working population to support itself. If you want it to support itself quicker, focus on housing and using gold to buy key buildings.
I understand, but you can't buy your way to making a city productive, as it depends on having a reasonably sized population. So the most important factor is the population growth, which is more a factor of geography and race than user action, so fast growth races have a much larger advantage now.
Also it means if your starting city and surrounding area have low food city sites then you will struggle to catch up with your opponents as there's no ways to mitigate that with a sawmill etc.
That is what housing for. Also yes that geography really important to city, especially as human player, but as much for ai, their city growth faster, and even the most terrible location still useful for them as beacon for summoning circle.
I don't think growth rate is that decisive. It confers advantage but as ai get growth cheat and player could manage thing better, it is not beyond overcoming.
Yes housing helps, but again the rate of population growth with housing is mostly based on the max population for the city. Actually I would like to see this changed to be more a factor of production than max population, so housing is a good option for low food/high production cities.
I think a game mechanic that only negatively affects the player can be a bit frustrating. Yes the best players can overcome it, but it doesn't make it fun or balanced.
I just noticed that stables give +4 production, so they are by far the best production building early on as well as one of the best early military building for some races. Could some of this production be shifted to mill and town hall?
I think I found a bug, I built a fantastic stable in a dark elf city, but I still don't have access to nightmares.
Edit: Also I can research Sky Drakes which is a very rare before Uranus Blessing which is a rare, is that intended?
Fixed production move to Stable is intentional and it is much more expensive investment.
You also need wizard guild to train nightmare on warlord mod. It is much more scary unit and much more expensive now.
For you to able to research sky drake before Uranus's Blessing is possible but not intentional on my part. I also don't know reason but I did see something similar like get very rare spell before last rare appear in some CoM game. But are you sure that you have Uranus' Blessing in spellbook? Now even when you start with 10 sorcery books it still not guerentee all sorcery rare due to now each realms have 16 rare spells, not just 12.
A game mechanic that only affects the human player is frustrating/annoying if you are expecting the AIs to play by exactly the same rules ... and to be as smart as the human. I accept that the AI is stupid, so I'd rather see them play by different rules if it makes the gameplay more interesting/fun. For example, the AI's inability to adequately garrison their settlements spoils the game from my perspective (too easy to steamroll them), so I think the game would be improved if their settlements got an admittedly rule-breaking set of garrison units, instantly and for free. Alternatively, if there was a penalty for taking too many settlements too quickly, I'd accept having those penalties not apply to the AIs, since they can't benefit much from the lack of it.
