[PB70] Charriu tries to promote the arts again

[Charriu]

So here are my thoughts about which trait to pair with PHI

Top tier

CRE: The obvious choice. Get a fast library down and pump out the scientists like last time. Also nice border pops, but those can backfire in a diplo game.
PRO: The early extra commerce helps getting to Writing faster and therefore getting the first library faster. Also nice for a little bit of protection in the early game.
CHA: I kind of like the monument bonus not only for it's CRE-lite way of border pops but also because you can generate gold with whipping with them. I did use some whips on warriors to generate gold in PB67, which felt right at the time. The extra XP might be important for earlier safety and protection. The happiness also can't hurt.
IND: Go forge, go engineer, go Pyramid, profit. But not only that. Getting up National Epic and Oxford faster is also nice.

Middle tier

AGG: Can provide protection by better units similar to CHA. The cheaper maintenance can help a little bit in the beginning maybe. But I feel CHA is better compared to AGG
ORG: Cheaper maintenance can help a lot. But other then that it's not that interesting to me.
EXP: The cheaper granary could potentially speed up the growth back to work scientists after the first library is done. Still it doesn't appeal that much to me this game.

Meh tier

IMP: I think the map is still big enough that I do not have to settle fast. The start is also not that heavy on hammers or forests that it is justified
SPI: Great trait and I had fun with it. But considering I want to turn mainly to scientists and ignore the religious tree for longer this trait seems a bit of a waste. I also played and liked it in PB59, but it is time for something new.

[Charriu]

I decided to go with Pericles again as you can see from the tech thread. The two things that ticked me on his side were:

- Cap Border pop at T50: Not only is this nice for exploration it also brings in the ivory resource early enough without the need to settle a city there.
- Better comparability to PB67

[Tarkeel]

- Cap Border pop at T50: Not only is this nice for exploration it also brings in the ivory resource early enough without the need to settle a city there.

Surely you meant T25.

Any reason why you went leader first?

[Charriu]

Ah yes stupid me T25 it is. Why leader first? Well I think the risk of loosing Pericles to anybody else is higher then any one of the civs that work with this start. Out of the civs I would play:

Russia
Mali
Greece
Japan
Germany
Rome

So more then enough choices for me to make.

[Commodore]

Lincoln of Native America is right there.

[Charriu]

Lincoln of Native America was on my list, but because I was first in order I went with the leader I wanted the most. Now I see that I'm already next to choose my civ. I've been thinking a lot about potential civs to take, but before I go there I think it is worth to lay out what my (tech) goals are.

The basics: First of all there are the basics that almost every civ needs. Of course the fewer I need of these basics the better. Those are:

Fishing
Hunting
The Wheel
Mining
Bronze Working
Agriculture
Pottery
Writing
Animal Husbandry
Mathematics
Currency
Sailing

Great Library: Since I want to settle scientists this game and going with Representation longterm it makes sense to get this wonder. It's also rather cheap to reach from a pure beaker point of view with just 1029 beakers required. Depending on the game situation I might go for this immediately after the basics. I need the following techs for it:

Mysticism
Polytheism
Aesthetics
Literature

Universities: It's rather easy and straight-forward to get Education for early Universities. Especially with Russia this will be very important. Another plus for this Education is very easy to bulb with Great Scientists. Beakers needed are 4038. Required techs are:

Code of Laws
Civil Service
Paper
Education

Constitution: The ultimate goal in the beginning. There are two ways to get there. The straight forward way with 7300 beakers is

Meditation
Philosophy
Nationalism
Constitution

I could go for Drama too there for some better modifiers on Philosophy, but would only do that if it really speeds things up.

Now there is a second way, which is riskier. By avoiding Masonry I would be able to bulb Nationalism with Great Artists and one of those can be acquired with Music. This way costs 8265 beakers it would net me Hereditary Rule on the way, but I would not have access to stone and marble (except for trade), siege units, elephants, pikemen. That's why it is risky. I'm not totally sure it's the better way. Could be if I generate a second great artist, but I would be giving up a lot for this way.

Defense: The biggest problem with the tech plan above is defense. With all the techs above I could build only spearman and axeman, that's not enough to defend. Now there are a few neat ways to improve that, which also influences which civ to take.

1. After Universities I could put 1872 more beakers in it to get Gunpowder. It would give me Musketman, which certainly is an improvement.
2. By investing into Metal Casting, Iron Working and Machinery I would get Maceman. Interestingly it's also 1872 beakers. I would get a slightly weaker unit but also some other goodies on the way like Iron and forges oh and Crossbowman would be in reach.
3. By going Masonry, Construction and Horseback Riding I would get Catapults, Elephants and Horchers. It costs 1060 beakers and would also provide stone and marble if they are there. This route would deny me the artist-Nationalism-bulb.

Now I'm not afraid about early attacks as spearman and axeman are enough for that. I'm more afraid about the medieval period and there with the RB favorite knight rush/push. It can be achieved with just 4990 beakers. So I would need some fast options to get there with civs in mind I could do the following:

Greece: No further investment, just trust in Phalanxes. Phalanxes trade equal compared to knights but with just 35 hammers way cheaper then 90 hammer knights.
Ethiopia: Their Oromo Warrior can take up Formation with just one promotion and with that can take up knights. They are also 10 hammers cheaper. After universities I would need to go further to Gunpowder. The problem here is that the push for Gunpowder alone costs 5910 beakers after the basics. Will be a close race towards that unit.
Japan: Their Samurai lie on the way to universities. Instead of going directly to Education I would make a detour to get Samurai. This would cost 3666 beakers therefore can be achieved before knights. The problem: I would need the Tatara and a barracks to get the Samurai 2 promotions (Drill 2 and Formation). With that they have a 50% chance against unpromoted knights, but against promoted knights they would need more defense either from cities or terrain.
Russia/Khmer: Their only option is to go for Construction. This would mean 1060 extra beakers, which is rather cheap. For comparison going for Pikeman would mean 4102 beakers. Now the elephant does work good against knights and is also 30 hammers cheaper. Khmer is even better against knights, but Russia has the more interesting UB. Of course we would also get the other good stuff like Catapults, Horchers and the Masonry resources. Keep in mind that I still don't have Iron Working with this plan.

Looking at the other players I don't see any immediate aggressive builds. Ginger going for the classic China can be used aggressive, but not necessarily. Bing is going full defensive mode with Mali, which would have been a nice option for me with IND/PHI. Mjmd felt the need to deny me America, which I wouldn't have picked anyway. America isn't aggressive here. Lastly Superdeath is trying PHI, but will fail at it because he doesn't micromanage or plan ahead enough.

Why not Pyramid?: A good question. It depends a lot on what I see on the map. With stone I might be willing to go for it, but then again Superdeath might do so either and maybe even Mjmd is trying to get an engineer for it with America. Therefore it's good to have a plan to get to Representation without the big pile of rocks. Another reason why I'm not planning with it is that I will put a big target on my back. Lastly another reason is that I still want to go for Constituion even with Pyramids. Not as fast as I would do without it mind you. Reason for going there is the tech after it Democracy and the recently changed Emancipation, which works great with PHI and Representation.


Having said that I heavily tend towards Russia. The UB is very intriguing. Since with this plan I go for a more defensive early game the late UU is great for a push then. Japan seems interesting but a bit too risky against knights. Ethiopia would work in that way, but the UU might come to late and the UB is too much culture in a diplo game. Greece might also work, but except for knights it just falls apart against other units like for example the Chinese. Khmer is better against knights, but I value the Russian UB a bit higher. So Russia it is.

[Tarkeel]

I was going to say I'm disappointed you didn't pick Germany, but Russia is also going to be very interesting to see in action. I love your thoughts on this, but I wonder why you didn't pick Greece? As you said, Phalanx can handle most anything for a long time.

[Charriu]

For Germany I would have liked a different game. With it I would like to play ORG/PHI. Bulb my way to Chemistry. Then go towards Steam Power and let the Engineers roll. This would not have involved Representation that much as I would like to do here. It's more a heavy hammer game and less focused on settled scientist.

Well the Phalanx can handle everything mounted up to a knight, which it can handle, but it starts getting difficult. The phalanx also can deal with axeman on the defense while standing on a hill. The problem for the phalanx are Crossbowman and then Maceman, which can do anything against. All the other options can deal with those in some way. Japan and Ethiopia just continue towards Gunpowder while Russia and Khmer just use the elephant against them. Since I would attempt to go for neither Gunpowder and Masonry with Greece I would only have Phalanx and Axeman. Very risky to go that way, but it gets me to Representation the fastest. The other reason against Greece is the somewhat boring UB compared to the other options.

[Miguelito]

Maces don't need iron fwiw (but samurai do, which together with the meh bonus makes them borderline worse than the original unit)

Axes and Phalanxes can't handle even a mixed stack of cats and axes plus something like elephants or crossbows on defense, much less knights (we killed such a stack of Amica's in 66 with only axes, but it was close, it didn't have enough cats&phants yet, and it required brutal whipping of the whole empire for axes that we never recovered from). They might buy you time to emergency research masonry+Constru and only lose 2 or 3 cities in the process though.

I'd also have liked Germany, but Russia and your constitution rush also sound interesting and fun.

[Charriu]

Another nice thing for Russia. The free scientist from the UB of course also gets the +2 hammer from Emancipation once I'm there.