[PB70 Mjmd] STAND AS ONE!

[pindicator]

Those are some juicy cities on the west coast. That's a smart call about AH being a bridge too far, though. I would consider the Deer/Ivory city 2nd or 3rd for this reason, but it all depends on how how the tech falls in your micro.

[Mjmd]

You say that, but literally at the time you were posting this I was considering going AH first and delaying the 4th city by a turn. I wouldn't want to delay the pig spot, but I'm perfectly happy delaying the deer spot. Especially as it looks like there isn't anything beyond the deer to grab.

1) Delaying 4th would mean that instead of being clever with good overflow for 3rd settler (4th city) I could NOT work the wheat for a turn helping 2nd city. I'll have to see how much this affects timing.
2) Getting the that pig, fish, and cow spot up would give me a 2nd capital level spot. I would get to settle it sooner both in terms of when settle and how fast I can get it up as I could have both workers there initially to improve the pig and chop forest into a workboat.

I'll have to make sure the AH tech timing works but assuming it does, even with clever overflows (I max the cap workboat basically) my 3rd settler isn't out until T43,. That is really late for that pig site. I think getting two uber cities going earlier will snowball faster even if it is inefficient for tech.

[Mjmd]

T11

Since I'm actually getting lurker interaction and MAYBE? Pin is ded lurking lets do some more map stuff before I start meeting people. 

I've done some remapping of city sites. I know some of it is blocked by icons. 

Partly this was due to timing and partly it was due to the question: how best to commerce up the river? I like to have just a few heavy commerce cities. Other cities can grow their cottages, but you can concentrate infrastructure in one city. In general I have prod / whipping cities, mixed cities, and commerce cities. I try not to have too many mixed cities. My prior layout had quite a few. 

My first thought was to put a commerce city 2S of the sheep. The problem with that city is it overlapped quite a bit with the dye city which I also expect to be commerce. It also barely could work all its tiles food wise. Especially so if I put it 1SE of the sheep. Plan is to put between sheep and deer; giving it two food even if one is a deer will be much better. Now its possible I change this up with scouting, but the main thing is the in general thought exercise meant that I'm pretty sure its correct to put 4th on plains hill 1SE of deer, instead of W of the deer (which would have been a very sad commerce city).

You'll also note worker micro jotted out. I have to make sure new timing works still, but I did confirm the AH timing works for the pig city. As stated its possible I change up due to scouting and capital border pop, but just some insight into my scatterbrain thoughts. 



I haven't been doing C&D stuff (I don't know how really and has always seemed too much work for too little info). However, I can tell from demo screen someone went workboat first while growing. My worker is constantly busy, so I'm curious at this. Maybe the starts are different.

So in PB67 I went Darius of Sumeria expecting to have room; that was not the case. This game looks to have room. Assuming that lake is the middle and there is about the same number of cities on other side I would estimate maybe 17 cities? Which is about what was requested, but with pinch in the middle it does increase costs and expansion speed. Zara of America will do fine with room as well, if not quite as well as my prior combo. My point being we have 3 combinations with no economic trait (phil is kinda but takes a lot of work) that pretty much all want to chase early wonders / religions. This will mean falling behind on expansion and or tech. I expect to fall behind on tech as well mind, that is what I do, but not expansion. In some ways fast expanding on diplo isn't great. People kind of expect halfway splits and I counted on this going Darius of Sumeria in PB67. So options here will be pushing borders a bit. Its hidden, but I have a nice hill city at the halfway mark (assuming) that A) doesn't take resources form someone on the other side (don't want to start a war), but B) does take some nice river tiles and makes itself fairly safe vs any non creative civ. Obviously can also use the fast expand to take advantage of any wars that pop up elsewhere. 

This does look pretty watery. If I wasn't America I would be tempted by Oracle into Colossus, but as is I'll just stick to fast expand plan into HG and currency. Big decision I'll have is sailing or writing first.

Due to focus expanding north first I'm most likely to focus pushing borders north, so will have to keep in mind for diplo. I'll meet whoever is NE and then probably cut back across west to scout that way.

[pindicator]

Yeah, I'm aiming to ded-lurk here. I haven't gotten out the spreadsheet yet and tried to micro anything out yet, but if there's anything you'd like another pair of eyes on it doesn't take much for me to start going down rabbit holes.

Partly this was due to timing and partly it was due to the question: how best to commerce up the river? I like to have just a few heavy commerce cities. Other cities can grow their cottages, but you can concentrate infrastructure in one city. In general I have prod / whipping cities, mixed cities, and commerce cities. I try not to have too many mixed cities. My prior layout had quite a few.

This is my ideal but I swear I always end up with more mixed cities than I intend. Or at least less prod cities. I don't even know what to call what I'm doing in 69...

You definitely sold me on the argument that you should get your best city locations settled soonest. With the Sheep and Deer city, if you are going to settle for that city to also have the deer then is there any reason to settle that plains hill at all? Deer+Ivory is very marginal if no seafood is in the fog, it might be better to get that deer & sheep city going and let the capital's 3rd ring culture get the ivory.

How much do you want to bet there's marble on that eastern island? And what's the plan for scouting out the south?

[Tarkeel]

Since I'm actually getting lurker interaction and MAYBE? Pin is ded lurking lets do some more map stuff before I start meeting people. 

You know that I can't comment on your dotmap, but I'm very interested in reading your thoughts on how to dotmap this.

[Mjmd]

 And what's the plan for scouting out the south?

You think I have a plan? 

I do like the idea of just settling for double food even if both are second ring. I initially was thinking the plains hill for two reasons; neither of which are great.
1) its one turn move from capital and then the sheep city would be one turn move from 3rd. 
2) Sheep city could instantly start working deer.

Both of these are pretty weak. Its obviously better to just get the double food site you are going to rely on your economy for going and leave other for filler. 

I can also do pottery before hunting then as well and do two chops into a granary there along with both workers can be there for border pop.

Anyways, good idea and I'll let you know when I find someone........ There was a 2nd river so I'm wondering if space inbetween the rivers is contested or ???

[Mjmd]

Due to focus expanding north first I'm most likely to focus pushing borders north, so will have to keep in mind for diplo. I'll meet whoever is NE and then probably cut back across west to scout that way.

Booo Charriu being north of me boooooo.



I deleted my notes as its likely I share this with Charriu but I do want to put a city NW of the jungled rice to steal tiles maybe....... Its super agro and steals the sheep short term (this is down the line obviously). Problem is he has some unjungled resources to put cities down there.

I'll likely just scout SW now unless Pin thinks declaring for vision  is worth.

Edit: decided not to share with Charriu as I'm giving him scouting of his territory (which might make him go south) and I don't get anything for my own immediate purposes. I did tell him I would probably trade later.

[Magic Science]

What's wrong with a downright sweetheart being north of you? .

[Mjmd]

I was hoping for someone I could push around easier / just roll over (I've done a HG push before), but Charriu is not that. All my most established cities will likely be north early. But again, may mean I can push back and steal some tiles without being too agro and get away with. Certainly a player I wouldn't' mind slowing down in a non violent way.

[Mjmd]

Instead of declaring or going SW I could also go south as fast as possible still picking up some fogged tiles. Pin thoughts? Charriu thinks map is strips and there isnt a lot west.