[PB70] Charriu tries to promote the arts again

[El Grillo]

That is indeed a neat trick, thanks for the explanation.

[Charriu]

The song



Music: Nate Tronerud - Dragon Warrior IV 'To Endor' OC ReMix

Dragon Quest is always an interesting case when in comes to music. Unlike other game franchise Dragon Quest managed to change not that much from game to game. Similar things can be said about the music. You can find almost all compositions from the first game in every following games. Here we have one of the later additions to the Dragon Quest soundtrack with the overworld theme from Dragon Quest 4.

I'm very curious what your thoughts and associations were in the first 20 seconds of this arrangment. For me I got strong Tchaikovsky vibes and specifically 'Dance of the Sugar-Plum Fairy' from his Nutcracker suite. But we do not stay there for long as Nate brings in a beautiful piano rendition of the main theme before they gradually bring in the whole orchestra from 0:45 onward. From here on out we just get bigger and bigger until the grand full orchestra interpretation of the piece at 1:45. We end the piece with yet another beautiful small rendition in the woodinstruments.

This is yet another arrangement you can find and download from Overclocked Remix.

T27:

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The T25 border pop is in and I struck gold, literally. Not only that be also have gold across the water on an island to the north. If it wasn't clear I will settle near the gold for the second city, specifically on the white map dot. This city will use the wheat for food in the beginning. It can also work the ivory and gold and help grow cottages along the river for the capitol. I want to continue building this city up as a production city. Now somewhat worrying is that I seem to orphan the fish there, but I'm pretty sure it can be use by an island under the fog. I will do a map discussion later and you will see why I think that. I want to do a proper dotmap when bronze working is in. Speaking of that tech. You can't imagine how happy I was that just when I started researching it both Bing and Mjmd finished that tech themselves and therefore both giving me KTB for it. 

As for my neighbors. Bing remains to be mute and hasn't spoken any word yet. He also hasn't setup espionage and is pumping 2 espionage into me each turn. But that wasn't what was worrying me. No that was his micro plan. I think he stayed on 1 pop until around T23 or so? That seems somewhat crazy to me. Unfortunaly we will never know because he isn't very active in his thread either.

Fortunately I have another neighbor, who knows how to use his voice.

Charriu: Hello again, my scout just found your border to your south. Looks like this time I won't have to enter your territory to get past you. ?

Bing: that was a huge pain in the ass

Charriu: Well the map will find another way to be that pain. Looks like we will be direct neighbors, but I think we will be able to find common ground here and a solution that works for both of us.

And that's all the mute wrote. Looking forward to talking with the wall again. You cannot imagine how happy I was when in T13 the next player knocked on my door with their scout to my south.

Charriu: Hey, you might have noticed by now that I have contact to somebody else in the game. I found Bing to my north-west. I also explored all the land between Bing and me. Would you be interested in exchanging maps?

Mjmd: I find truth is always best. Right now I have info of your lands but while interesting i care little about land between you and bing. That being said for good relations I'm willing to t26 (culture pop turn right?)

Charriu: That would be T25. Looking forward to it

[A few turns later]

Mjmd: Sd is southern neighbor; found me last turn. I assume I can direct him your way if he is interested

Charriu: Of course, if you want. Let's hope he went for Egypt to make religion and a shrine and not for a war chariot rush. It also means that inactive Ginger is his other neighbor most likely

[T25]

Mjmd: As  promised



Charriu: I'm in a rush and have no time to stitch it together:
[posted a bunch of screenshots]
Should have just zoomed out like you sorry
Will do a proper zoomed out version later. If you want to integrate it in your thread

Mjmd: Yes please. No rush.
I mean to type about our border and then forgot..... but it seems pretty simple. with that river and lake in the middle and all the jungled resources

Charriu: So here is the proper screenshot. Sorry for keeping you waiting. To make it up to you a little bit I took this screenshot during T27.


Yes the border situation looks more clear with the lake being the mid point just as if somebody planned it. ?

And with that I have a much more clear picture of the whole map. It looks like my initial gut feeling was right and we are on diagonal stripes stretching across the torodial wrap. I think during map request somebody mentioned that the map from PB63 was a good map for this and it had a similar stretch across the wrap. I observed the following noteworthy things about our map here:

1. All players may have a lake between them marking the mid point.
2. All players have 3 of the same calendar resources between them (encourages trade, because not everybody has all calendar resources)
3. Everybody has a gold near their capitol borders
4. Some resources look to be mirrored (pig and cow west of the cap, fish south of the cap)
5. Some terrain is also mirrored (the flood plain valley NW)
6. The islands look to be mirrored. This is the reason for my assumption about the fish from above.
7. Everybody started with a banana forest, clam lake and either 2 agriculture or hunting resources.
8. Most importantly There seems to be a copper 4SE of everybodys cap. That makes me believe that there's a copper in a similar or same position NW of me like in Mjmd's screenshot. BW will confirm this.

Now what are my thoughts about this map. Keep in mind this isn't meant to complain about the map like some players like to do.  Rather I want to provide constructive criticism for Tarkeel.
I think this is a perfectly fine map for a standard "boring" RB map. I'm saying boring because people keep requesting this kind of map too often. Yes it's noticable that certain parts of the map are mirrored and designed, which takes a bit away from the wonder of exploration, but I can live with that. I like the calendar resources encouraging trading for a diplo game. My biggest criticism though is that I think this isn't a good map for a diplo game. Everybody only has direct interaction with two of their neighbors and the border situation between these neighbors looks to be more clear cut. I hope we have some interaction across the water with the other two neighbors, but I doubt this will make it better in terms of diplo.
I think what benefits a diplo game more is a lot more asymmetrie between the players. Let them have completely different starts and number of neighbors and do not mirror the map. This keeps the wonder of exploration and makes trading maps worthwhile during diplo. It also gives each player different needs, concerns and weakness, which they can try to lift with diplomacy. Without those diplomacy will turn out somewhat dull I think. If only we could have played on a map likes this then this diplo game could have turned out amazing. Sigh, but wait we actually did start on a map likes this in PB67. 

[Miguelito]

Yes, I tend to agree with you, but after the pb67 crash can't blame Tarkeel for going hyper balanced here. And I'd also say that 67 was too far towards the other extreme, with regards to proximity of starts and relative lushness. Even though I really liked the concept.

[Tarkeel]

I really appreciate the feedback, and while I can't talk about details most of what you bring up is thing that I have considered while making the map. I really disagree about PB67 though; I did run the map through novice's tool and it was.. bad.

[Charriu]

Yes, I tend to agree with you,  but after the pb67 crash can't blame Tarkeel for going hyper balanced here. And I'd also say that 67 was too far towards the other extreme,  with regards to proximity of starts and relative lushness. Even though I really liked the concept.

It was not my intend to put blame on Tarkeel. He delivered what was asked for and he did his job well. The blame is on us making the wrong requests. This map is a good and well done map.

I really appreciate the feedback, and while I can't talk about details most of what you bring up is thing that I have considered while making the map. I really disagree about PB67 though; I did run the map through novice's tool and it was.. bad.

Of course I understand why we can't talk openly about it and I do think and see that you considered these things while making the map. Best example are the luxury resources encouraging trade. I totally believe you that PB67 is a bad map according to novice's tool and RB standard, I'm not arguing against that. But the one and very important factor that novice's tool can't and never will capture is diplomacy and when it comes to that I think that PB67 encouraged more diplomacy interaction between players. For example we shared a lot of maps during PB67 and even worked and helped each other in completing the map, something that I think won't be important in this game. We also figured out ways to get foreign trade roling as soon as possible. This is a lot simpler here. That pluck yourself on the coast and explore the shore line (which is what my scout will do). Hell I was even employed as the chief fog-gazer.

Also take your and my border situation back in PB67. We found a solution through diplomacy that may be different according to novice's tool. I'm curious how did our border situation turn out in novice's tool. Did the line run along similar lines to our agreements or totally different?
But just to iterate again. This is a well done map according to RB standards. Job well done, Tarkeel. And I mean that.

[Charriu]

Thinking a bit more and seeing how some people interact here. I think one major problem is what all PB67 players expect from a diplomacy game. I think there are two distinct groups.

Group 1: The standard RB player. These players want to play a standard RB game with all the usual and well known caveats except for one. They want the others to understand their AI diplomacy aka put those in specific words. I would count Bing and Superdeath in this group.

Group 2: The chatty player. These players want to have even more interaction with the other players. Share maps, discuss the game situation, forge alliance, engage in deception, really work together with other players aka better their position with diplomacy. I think Tarkeel and I fall into this group and to a certain extend Mjmd too.

Bringing this to this game. I think on a hyperbalanced map like this the chatty players are in an advantage. The player who works together with his fellow players can overpower the player who interacts less.

[Charriu]

The song



Music: Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra - SCORE Orchestral Game Music "Super Mario - Suite"

Prepare for a big one. You hear a live recording from the Swedish Radio Symphony's SCORE concert, which features music from a lot of games from 2016.

There's way to much in this piece to go into detail about every little thing. So I just want to highlight some interesting stuff. First of all a very interesting start for a piece using three songs for the ending of their respective games, but it works. I also love how seamlessly the transition is between a late Mario entry like "Super Mario Galaxy - Staff Roll" to an early one "Super Mario Bros. 2 - Ending". I also love how some lesser features pieces are arranged here. You rarely hear "Super Mario 64 - Opening (Peach's Letter)"

We soon end up in one of the bigger parts of the piece: "Super Mario Galaxy 2 - Staff Roll". I love the brass section and the strings and the beginning of this part as well as later in 6:10. A great arrangement and so perfect before the big twist in this medley, when we make a hard left turn away from the cheerful mario themes to the darker side of the games beginning with the "Super Mario Bros. 3 - Castle" at 6:42. Who knew that Mario can be so intense like with the "Super Mario Bros. - Castle" at 7:22.

After this short dark part we quickly return to the lighter side of Mario with arguably one of the best mario songs in the last decades: "Super Mario Galaxy - Gusty Garden Galaxy". Of course you can't do a Mario Medley without the ever so famous "Super Mario Bros. - Main Theme". The piece ends with another rarely played song in the "Super Mario Bros. - Level Clear", but what a beatiful and majestic interpretation it is.

Lastly I wanted to mention one thing I noticed over the years I attended concerts like this. The way of presentation. I think the way they did it is the best way and if you have watched the video you may already have noticed what I mean: The changing of the colored lights. It's so simple and helps so much in setting the mood of a piece. At the same time it's not as distracting as video from the games. It's like the light engineer is another player in the orchestra. Love it.
If you need more information about the concert and where to buy stuff look here: https://www.berwaldhallen.se/en/concert/...e-music-2/

T28:

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The second city is settled this turn and started a warrior. As you can see I also discovered some more land with it. Main purpose of this city is to be a hammer city as I've mentioned before. Not necessarily the best at it. But good enough after it helped the cap grow cottages.

I named the city after Koji Kondo, probably Video Games most important composer. He composed the music for many early Nintendo games and took over a supervisor role for the later staff. The fact that you (and maybe even your mother) know his music even though you never played the games makes him that good. Among those games are the two big Nintendo franchise Mario and Zelda. But he also did some "smaller" ones like Punch Out, Golf, (NES), Yoshi's Island, Pilotwings (one song), Star Fox 64, Super Smash Bros. Brawl. You may not like Nintendo, but there's no denying about the important musical basement für VGM that Koji Kondo laid down.

[civac2]

Looks like you will have to settle on the banana.

[Miguelito]

Looks like you will have to settle on the banana.

You say that as if it was a bad thing?

[Charriu]

I don't think I have to settle on banana for the fish. Let me illustrate this some more.




If you look at my overview shot and compare it with Mjmd's you will notice that both the stone and gems island are perfect mirrors in their terrain as well as their position in correlation to the capitol. While exploring towards Bing I noticed the tip of an island/tile across the sea. If you project that tile towards my area then you could settle on this tile and get the fish in second ring. Now I could be totally wrong here, but I strongly believe in the mirroring of the map. 

If not well then I have to settle on the banana. Could be worse.