PB70: Bing's WOLF WARRIOR diplo???

[BING_XI_LAO]

So I want to know if I violated the turnsplit rules. Here's what happened:

Turn 63, I log in first, move a skirmisher next to a Charriu/El Grillo worker
El Grillo logs in, finishes a road with the worker

Turn 64 El Grillo logs in briefly, mentions he has question for Charriu and "will leave T64 unplayed". I see this as well as seeing his login on PBSpy, which I use to tell me when there's a turn to play.
I log in, see the worker is still there, I go read the ettiquette rules and don't see anything disallowing me from attacking. Also, Rule 3 makes it sound like as the attacker I get to choose which half of turnsplit, since I am not double moving. So I capture the worker with my skirmisher.

I tell El Grillo for his convenience, and MJMD since he also neighbours El Grillo. MJMD tells me I've fucked up because I attacked halfway through El Grillo's turn and defender can double move.

These ARE the rules, right? 
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...p?tid=7311

[BING_XI_LAO]

Interesting, trying to copy or quote the rules post directly results in server error 500...

[BING_XI_LAO]

Here's how I would reformat the rules, organising them by topic. Here's how I would reformat the rules, organising them by topic. Also rule 5 and 8 are too ambivalent.

GENERAL RULES
1- Play your turn as soon as you can. A fast turn pace is a happy turn pace.
2- If you can't play your turn(s) find a sub. Otherwise you might find it hard to get into future games. (Thanks retep)
3- The tech thread is not the place to argue about in-game issues in an AI diplo game - the lurkers should be able to get both points of view and arbitrate without giving spoilers. (If you haven't got many lurkers post in the tech thread asking lurkers to come look at your question).
4- Don't hide your research by changing it just before the turn rolls
5- In the event of a reload forcing you to replay your turn, replay the turn exactly like you originally played it, to the best of your ability. (Thanks novice)
6- It is the responsibility of all players to check that the settings are correct once the game is hosted. (Thanks Krill)

LURKER RULES
1- Global lurkers should give no spoilers - even asking what turn someone plans to finish a wonder can tip them off that they have competition...

TURNSPLIT RULES
1- The person declaring war can choose which half of the turn timer they get, so long as they didn't move after the victim on the previous turn.
2- Don't try to play after another player on a regular basis. If you are trying to prevent them getting the second half when they attack you then you're playing clock games and Krill will find your pathetic civ and crush it. If you are planning to attack them then just drop behind them one or two turns in advance (it's actually less likely to telegraph your intentions). In fact you can play before them the turn before you attack - there is no problem with letting your victim double move you.
3- If you are at war with someone don't log in before/after they've played unless they have given you explicit permission. (Edit: Controversy! See thread for details...)
4- In a peace-time turn split (eg a settling or hut-popping race) the turn you realise there should be a split is when the order is established.
5- Try to only log in once per turn, or play all your moves in one session - this is harder for teams or if you have a surprise or simming to do, but it makes figuring out turn splits easier.

DIPLO RULES
1- Sending in-game messages with numbers and letters (gold and city names) are a grey area - assume they are banned unless the setup specifically allows them edit: with the new ai diplomacy options it seems to make more sense to use gold to send messages, just don't be surprised if someone accepts your deal...
2- No naming units with messages for other players. (I really want to play a variant of AI diplo where you are allowed to communicate, but only by gifting named units, but no-one else seams that keen )

[BING_XI_LAO]

Chatting to MJMD on discord about it, I do believe mistakes should be revertible such as worker should've moved away (grillo didn't spot skirm)
Which is a separate topic from rules, but i do find these rules annoyingly worded

[BING_XI_LAO]

Seems fine to me!

[Tarkeel]

You didn't double move, but because you declared while the turn was being played you put Charriu / Grillo at a disadvantage.

Something similar happened in pb62 where nauf declared us on mid turn due to accepting a deal.

[BING_XI_LAO]

As I made very clear to Charriu, I intended to move my skirmisher onto the forest next turn, to put pressure on him. 
We agreed to sign peace/OB last turn so that I could gift the worker back.

What isn't part of the deal is me being unable to move the skirm onto that forest in war state due to the culture pop. Now that culture popped, war dec will teleport my skirm back.
I'm only at peace in order to return the worker.  

As such I'm requesting that a lurker remove the culture-borders from that tile so I can gift the worker, while still attacking with the skirm.

[Tarkeel]

The border expansion should have been predictable since Charriu is CRE, but the best option is probably to reload back to Scooters logout T64, and replay that turn. You should then let El Grillo finish the turn, and play after and declare. Does that sound acceptable?

[BING_XI_LAO]

I don't see how that corrects things? The worker can't move until this turn so I can't gift it until this turn. Can you WB in a worker for him lol?
Or he could just recapture the worker, the problem with that is, that it must move onto a tile that my skirm isn't also on. Which means I am getting extra vision and he needs to assign a unit's turn to do so.

[BING_XI_LAO]

You didn't double move, but because you declared while the turn was being played you put Charriu / Grillo at a disadvantage.

Something similar happened in pb62 where nauf declared us on mid turn due to accepting a deal.

If logging in and out (and in this case mentioning it's left it unplayed) counts as "turn is being played" then this should be explicitly stated in the rules.

It goes against the existing rules as written, which state:
-that turn should be played as early as possible
-that the attacker gets to decide which half of turn the war occurs as long as they dont's go 2ndhalf into 1sthalf war, 
-and which mentions you can (at least in some games) login after your opponent in a war plays, which makes it clear that not all logins count as a turnsplit.

Surely the point of all the turnsplit rules is to avoid double-moving? Which I didn't do. 

I was fine with returning the worker only because it's good sportsmanship to revert mistakes (esp made by a temp sub) and it improves the game quality. But sportsmanship and the rules should be separate IMO.