Gavagai's procrastination bin

[Gavagai]

I have no current knowledge of Mjmd's current game. But I just want to point out something, as someone with a lot of experience with the Kremlin econ in multiplayer (probably(?) the most of everyone at RB): it runs on a limited amount of time. At a certain point, there is too much whipping unhappiness and you run out of excess happiness, and then your choice is to either whip more and make the problem worse, or stop whipping / whip considerably less again (but then you lose your previous advantage). Smart choices of a few cities not to whip alleviate this somewhat, but certainly not entirely. Finally, if hostilities ever cease, Mining Inc. players can convert their hammers into GNP via wealth, while Kremlin players cannot. So I do believe there is a compelling reason that if Mining Inc. and Kremlin economies appear equal in the short-term, the Mining Inc. player is much stronger in the long-term. Towards the end of PB59, you can see this problem beginning for me (and within 5 more turns, it would have been crippling). I believe Mig would have won that game, due to this dynamic. Really, this applies to Kremlin vs. any other type of economies, Mining Inc. is just a particularly good example.

Anyway, I do not know what the right option is for you, but I hope that is some food for thought, at least.I have been really enjoying your updates recently, and have only not been commenting because I did not want to raise Plemo's suspicions.

Thank you for the insight. I did not follow PB59 as I was not on the forum during this time, so the idea of industrial slavery is a novelty to me. I thought mjmd invented it, apparently not. Were you in Hereditary Rule in PB59? Mjmd is, this is a critical component to deal with unhappiness, I thought about that. You can store your units in your cities and when you actually need to use them - heck, you can even turn on the culture slider briefly, you should be able to afford that. Did you try it in your game? Was that not enough?
I was more focused on a different problem with mjmd's setup - you cannot whip research and your specialists are very weak. You have no way to convert your food into commerce and, in fact, you have nothing else to do with your excess food but to turn it into units. So mjmd is locked into building units non-stop until the end of the game. You pointed out this problem but what you maybe have missed is that if you build units everyone else also has to build units, so your rivals cannot really do that much research builds. This game is gonna take a while, I feel, and will be very bloody because mjmd has to look for ways to convert his power into land  My hope is that he and Plemo will be in a deadlock and if one of them starts to give way - I can always interfere.

[Gavagai]

So, mechanics question. What possible reason P&P could have to move their capital to Adrea? It must be some "same continent" effect but it escapes my mind which one of them could be relevant.

[Amicalola]

So, mechanics question. What possible reason P&P could have to move their capital to Adrea? It must be some "same continent" effect but it escapes my mind which one of them could be relevant.

Intercontinental trade routes + Protective + Capital bonus? Only reason I can think of.

Edit: I have thoughts in response to your post, but I need time to formulate them. I sort of agree, moreso ina zero sum game (where I think the Kremlin strategy is very strong) and less so in a multi-competitive game (where I think it has big problems), is the short answer.

[Qgqqqqq]

Same continent, protecting a spaceship from being destroyed, maintenance costs, bureaucracy, etc.

[Gavagai]

Same continent, protecting a spaceship from being destroyed, maintenance costs, bureaucracy, etc.

Well, the bolded part is clearly inapplicable here, lol. (I assume they would move the capital somewhere else once they have the spaceship which makes this decision even more puzzling).

[Gavagai]

I thought about two more belated considerations in favor of attacking Rome.
1) I completely forgot that mjmd did not bother to get a second promo for his ships. Nav1 Battleships over Battleships without Nav1 is a significant tactical advantage.
2) I realized that P&P beeline the Internet. That would be very painful. I have to beeline Superconductor, this is the only path that makes even a remote amount of sense for me after Industrialism and I expect Tarkeel to do the same. After that, I think we should be able to play around the Internet (mostly because P&P would be so far ahead) but we are going to hand Biology, Refrigeration and Superconductor to them while they will go directly for Fusion. I do not know what the fuck I am supposed to do with it. Maybe the only tech path that makes sense is actually Fission -> Rocketry.

[Gavagai]

Ok, Biology they are guaranteed to take - both mjmd and Tarkeel have it. Refrigeration is cheap, so whatever. But I am definitely going to delay Superconductors now (I assume Tarkeel will be there before me), even though this is not how the space race is supposed to be played.

[Gavagai]

Current turn demos. I thought it would be fitting to put them up for the second part of the post I promised to continue. So, I decided not to attack P&P. Then what?
I already said that but it bears repeating. These numbers are pathetic for someone who has more land than everyone else by far. The reason is that everyone else is maxed out or close to maxed out. I, on the other hand, have lots of unrealized potential.
1) My industrialization is far from finished because I had to mix it up with war preparations. I expect mjmd and P&P are pretty much done and even Tarkeel is ahead of me because he industrialized during a golden age.
2) My corp is spread to less than half of my cities (same reason). 
3) My civics are garbage. Once I revolt into US / Free Speach / Free Market my output will increase massively.
4) I will have another golden age before the game ends. I doubt any of my rivals, excluding maybe P&P can say the same about themselves.
5) I have a decent shot at getting Aluminium Inc. I believe in the space race context the combo of CreCon / Aluminium Inc is stronger than Mining Inc as it will give me more research in the end.
I expect that in my final form I will have a higher output than Plemo - and I mean significantly higher. Especially if I add Miguelito's cities (which I plan to do). Mjmd and Tarkeel, I believe, are irrelevant as space race rivals. Mjmd is not going to win by space due to his setup, unless he wins or loses on the battlefront. Tarkeel is simply too weak, not having a corp is crippling. He still can get Sid's Sushi but I don't think even this would be enough. So, the game will be decided by the answer to the following question: will Rome be able to launch before I catch up with them?
And these considerations define my endgame strategy: victory in the nuclear war. I will let Rome build their spaceship, maybe I will even let them launch. Their problem is that they don't have that much strategic depth. They will be eliminated from the game before their spaceship arrives. This is what I am going to count on.

[klops]

wow, thats a lategame teaser :D

I have no idea what I would do in this situation, very difficult to tell.

What possible reason P&P could have to move their capital to Adrea?

one more option: someone destroyed Rome *lol*

[Gavagai]

one more option: someone destroyed Rome *lol*

If only