[Spoilers] Pindicator's Nice Thread

[pindicator]

Switched gears to Paper. It's too important to land UoS, so Machinery will need to wait.

[Tarkeel]

Thank you for the detailed overview.

[pindicator]

151

Since I'm still trying to figure out where I try to build University of Sankore, let's go through some candidate cities.  Also, I didn't touch on individual cities in my turn 150 write-up:




Rainbow Brite is the current hammer leader, thanks to being in Bureaucracy.  With National Epic finishing here soon it also makes sense that I would want to build as many other wonders here to stack the GP points.  However, the city is about as capped out in production as it is going to be:  currently pulling in 17 base hammers/turn, or 38hpt with Stone and other multipliers factored in.  That's good for a 15-turn build time, which is way too late for a city I want to be hiring specialists out of when I switch to my next golden age in the next 5-10 turns.





David the Gnome doesn't look like a great production contender on the surface, but if it takes the grass mine from Rainbow Brite when it grows next turn then the Mint will finish in 3t, lining right up with Paper coming in.  Then we can swap a couple cottages to plains hills and suddenly we're looking at a city pulling in a base 20hpt.  200% multiplier (Stone, Mint, Org Rel) will bring that to 40hpt and turns UofS into a 14t build.  In addition, this is a city that would be greatly helped out by a golden age, likely knocking a couple turns off that build time.





Thundercats is fairly self-explanatory.  When the Mint finishes it will also grow and be at 16 base hpt, or 32hpt after all multipliers (I'm really banking on being able to buy Stone again here).  But it is one of the weaker production cities here and would be at least a 17 turn build.  Also, this is the Heroic City and really needs to be building units and not wonders.

Although now I am starting to think it was a mistake to build Heroic Epic here and not in My Little Pony, but I can explain that more in another post.





My Little Pony is in need of growth and windmills to get to its full hammer potential, but right now if we swap over to plains mines we'll be looking at a 18hpt base, but only 31hpt after all the multipliers come in (no Mint here yet, sadly).  I think this would be the city to build it in if I wait about 10 turns, after it gets its Mint finished, but for now it still needs too many pieces.


I think this comes to just 2 choices now:  I can either build it in David the Gnome when I get Paper in 3 turns, or I can delay Paper, go back to Machinery and get some more infrastructure like Mints & religious buildings, as well as plant some windmills for cities like DtG and MLP to be able to make better use of their hammers.  This would also let me build the wonder during the entirety of my next golden age instead of just catching the tail end of it.

Although I need to be careful:  Windmills only get their +1h if I'm in Serfdom, and I think I've been thinking of them as turning my 0f4h plains mines in 1f3h1c plains windmills, which won't be the case as I'll probably be in Caste instead of Serfdom.  Maybe.

I think I stay the course and tech Paper.  Which means next turn I need to give that grass hill mine to DtG, and try to buy Stone off someone.

[pindicator]

152

More draining wars abroad while I build up at home, please.

[pindicator]

153

I did not expect this reaction from Gavagai:




This has the feeling of one of those fateful turns. With Gavagai potentially misplacing his army could I come in and stab him to take Rome? Certainly it would not be good from a Fish - Fish perspective. He absolutely would see this as a retalation. And yet, this is the kind of opportunity that may not come up again.

So I sent Commodore a pair of deals, trying to communicate:




Pig & Cow are the resources on the two of Gav's cities nearest to Commodore. Crab (substitute for Crab) and Sheep are the two resources for Arretium and Rome. Point is, if Commodore doesn't give Rome peace then he can't get back to Rome in time. And if Commodore throws his catapults into Gav's stack then it may not matter anyway.

No wars have been declared. If Gav turns around then I probably do the same. Although he certainly knows he can't trust me. But I would have thought he knew that already...




Maybe I should have gone Machinery after all...

Edit: I don't have a fish-fish deal with Gavagai but I realize he might think we do. In an effort to improve my healthiness I asked for him to trade him clam to me for my fish. Oh shoot, I did not mean that as such... Dammit, I'm going to get a reputation after 65 and now this

[Qgqqqqq]

What tile is your stack on?

[pindicator]

NE of He-Man

[pindicator]

154

I didn't declare last turn because I wasn't sure if I was going to. I wanted to keep my options open. But Gavagai went and made them for me




The luxury deal was really the only thing keeping me at peace with Gavagai. And it also pissed me off: Rainbow Brite and Thundercats both went into unhappiness. TC actually came up 1 hammer short of its Mint for it. And I came up a few beakers short of Paper. Not that I'm going to be building UofS any time soon, but it still just pissed me off. It was silly to go for it and think I could have stayed at peace in all this.

Also I probably shouldn't be playing this late at night.

Let's recap how we got here, because I think it's a completely understandable series of events.

1. Gavagai and I set for peace with him fighting Commodore and my army at his capital.
2. I earnestly go for an infrastructure buildup and to use my golden age.
3. Commodore attacks Gavagai with his horse archers.
4. Gavagai misplaces his army and his capital is defended by a pittance.
5. I take the bait and move forward.

I've been trying to think about how this is similar to the situation in PB65 with Mjmd in some ways and in other ways it is not. With Mjmd it was a strategic blunder to attack those undefended cities on our border, even if it was tactically available. He was a long term ally up to that point and I threw that away and worse for hardly any gain. Here my long term ally is Commodore, and I'm not sure there would be any trust between Gavagai and I. (He might actually have gone for peace in the hopes of striking out against his other neighbors, but I could never trust that he wouldn't want to retaliate against me as well.)

The part where I worry I may have made another strategic blunder is the play for University of Sankore. I could have been fielding crossbows right now and instead I'm not even going to be building the wonder that I teched Paper for as every city is on unit production. If I had stayed out of this would Commodore and Gavagai ground each other down and I could have continued developing? I think perhaps I should have shown more patience, and let Commodore and Gavagai trade barbs some more. And yet, as I think out that scenario in my head I think there is a real possibility that Gavagai takes Goldshlager at the cost of half his army and Commodore is able to swoop in with his horse archers and take all of Rome.

I think Gavagai forced me to move my army up when he put his army so out of position last turn. I would play the last turn the same way if I had to with this knoweldge. (Well, I might try to secure a happiness trade or two.)

Whatever, we can discuss the scenario another time. There still is the current war to sort out:




If we both race to Rome then his armies move into Rome the turn before I can attack it. Which is honestly right where I want them: with 13 catapults able to strike first against a stack of Praetorians that will not have any chance to stop and heal I feel like I have good odds in this. In addition, I think Commodore will correctly move in with his horse archers next turn and strike towards Cumae. He sees where my army is and will be able to tell that Gav cannot cover both Cumae and Rome with those Praetorians: if he slows down to cover Cumae or deal with the horse archers then he loses Rome to me. If he races back to Rome then Cumae is lost to Commodore.

I think Gavagai races back to Rome and Commodore is able to take Cumae on t155. I think we're all going to end up circling around Rome and if Commodore gets Rome in the end then you all can really tell me I screwed up.

[pindicator]

I should have waited 1 more turn

[Thoth]

That sounds ominous.....


Details?