[SPOLERS] yuris125, Pitboss 71. The battle Warrior of Light is unlikely to win

[Tarkeel]

No one knows? I vaguely remember something about Writing being required for a peace treaty. If that's the case, I literally signed a cease fire the turn before I could offer a proper peace. Really not happy about this. That said, I know diplomacy is my biggest weakness in these games. That's why I like to play always war

It's one of those things changed in RtR, which I'm not too familiar with.

[yuris125]

Still couldn't offer a peace treaty. Maybe both parties need to have Writing to sign agreements?

Anyway, Bing accepted a cease fire again, and I don't expect having to bother him again. And it is T50, overview time. Not that there are many surprises to those who've been reading the thread




The worker at Old Sharlayan is putting a chop into a settler, which should be the last pre-Math chop. Ishgard's good tiles are all improved. Next priority is to complete the road network and get the 3rd city ready. The spot I initially marked as my 2nd city is pretty much abandoned, I should remove the sign - that spot doesn't have its own good tiles to work, and I don't think tile sharing works on this map

My two cities




Building one more worker after the settler, then finally starting to set up infrastructure with granary and library




Granary will be followed by barracks, and then mostly units, especially if I opt for an early war (although I'm not sure about that - more talk about overall plans down below)

3rd city will go S of the horse, and expansion prospects after that are slim. I pretty much accepted that cities with 6 food surplus are not a thing; every spot which can get +4 food, I should take. On the other hand, since cities are unlikely to grow large, abundance of useless tiles within city borders are less of a concern than usual. Here are my options




This is what I mean when I say that the amount of useless tiles is not that much of a concern. On a greener map, this spot wouldn't deserve a second look. But here - this city gets to +4 food from the sheep, +5 if I farm the grassland, and then can work some plains hill mines and whip off them from size 5 to 3. This is likely my 4th city




The blue dot is the most cottageable spot in the area. It does need IW to get going, so that I can get rid of the jungle, and ideally Calendar to properly use the banana. But there's potential here

The brown dot is... not great, to say the least. Plains wheat is only +4 food, which is barely enough to work the double gold - and it is desert hill gold, lower quality than plains hill gold I have at Old Sharlayan. Also, it is right in the middle between 4 civs - 7 tiles from myself and Krill, 8 tiles from Bing and Superdeath. Is it worth settling such a vulnerable location just to work 2 desert golds? Probably not. But there's also ivory - and that might make it worthwhile. Post-Civil Service, I can bring irrigation here from the lake at the blue dot, and then it would actually be an alright spot

That's all I can get without going to war. As a reminder, this is the land to my direct east. It is unsettlable




And to the west, we have Thoth

Now, when we come to less peaceful expansion options, Thoth's land is very high on the list. The problem is, Cre/Pro is probably the worst trait combination to attack into without catapults. We'll see what we can see once the workboat gets back and can poke and prod around Thoth's territory, but at this point I highly doubt there's a chance of a successful attack pre-Construction

So while we wait for Construction, maybe it's good time to take advantage of the stone, and put some post-Math chops into wonders

If we do talk wonders, Pyramids is high on the list. At first I thought this map didn't have enough food to take advantage of Pyramids properly. But with how few good tiles there are, working specialists instead has to be a consideration. If I have an option to work a plains hill mine or a Representation-boosted scientist, I would guess that scientist is significantly better

Oracle is another option, although of course that doesn't get boosted by stone, and I haven't bothered with the Mysticism branch at all yet (yep, I'm that AI who doesn't research Mysticism until T70). But if it's still available in a dozen turns, I might make a play for it. Oracling Construction could be a way to unlock the plan of liberating Thoth's cities

Other potential builds to take advantage of the stone are Stonehenge, and Moai in the 3rd city

F6




Plan after Math is Masonry and Sailing, then decide if I want to bother with the Mysticism branch or go straight for Construction and/or medieval techs (Machinery or Civil Service would be priority). Normally one would have to go through Mysticism for Monarchy, but I don't think there's much value in Monarchy on this map, there's not enough food to take advantage of HR happiness, and almost none of the land is farmable, so Serfdom also isn't something to aim for

Demos, which I would rate as "alright, considering"




Anything else you want me to show?

[yuris125]

Thoth's power is getting a little worrying (rating on the scoreboard showing as 0.7). Hopefully my land does not look as appealing to him as his does to me also, I have to move archers along our borders, protecting the workers as I'm preparing the 3rd city. Assume he understands what I'm doing and doesn't see it as a provocation

Probably will try for Oracle in Ishgard. I would need to finish Maths, Masonry (Construction pre-req), Mysticism, Polytheism (not Meditation to avoid unlocking Philosophy bulb prematurely), Priesthood. That's 20 turns worth of research at the current rate, probably will end up being a few turns fewer with beaker overflow and commerce added by the 3rd city. So we would be looking at Oracle around T70, and tbh I don't have high expectations for it to not fall before then. But if it doesn't, Oracling Construction would be a huge help. And building the wonder itself is the easy part, 4 chops + whip overflow will get me there, just would need to line up my 4 workers for those chops

Also, saw a barb spear near Krill's land, a reminder that I do need to connect the copper soon, as I probably will have barbs coming from desert / icy areas

[yuris125]

Bing is putting all EP into me. Maybe I've done something to upset him, hmmmmmmm

[yuris125]

Rip my scout, he served me well




Can't even pray to get lucky, with deterministic combat

At least he did find Commodore for me, now I just don't know where Pindicator is. With how long it took for us to make contact, probably somewhere behind Thoth, as it's not easy to get from there to me by land

Commodore built the Oracle, so that plan is off the table. Probably for Monarchy, as I don't see any other expensive techs known to other players in the F6

I settled the 3rd city




Meanwhile, Krill is the first to 4 cities. Remember when he complained about his start? I member

[yuris125]

The question I'm pondering

The capital needs to grow. At the start I talked about potentially moving the capital, doesn't look likely now. So I would like to get it to size 7 and work the tiles it works now + 3 grassland cottages. Growth will be painfully slow at only +3 food; I can speed it up a bit by sacrificing working the gold every now and then, but the city desperately needs a granary, and then a library to run all that commerce through. Bottom line is, I cannot build units there after the worker it's currently building

Kugane is freshly settled and needs a workboat and a granary at the very least

So Ishgard is the only place where I can build units. Can I get away with the next unit I build there being a settler? How long can I get away with the entire military consisting of 2 archers, and the lowest power rating in the game?

[yuris125]

More pondering while I'm thinking about the game state instead of doing work. Thoth's city is vulnerable to an attack from SE by mounted units. Ishgardian wheat is out of his sight at the moment; if I stage mounted units there, they can reach the city and attack it, and it is currently defended by an archer and an axe. According to Vodka, half a dozen chariots have an 80%+ chance of taking it (exact chance depends on promotions). I could also research HBR, although that's likely to prompt Thoth to put spears in the city, which would lengthen the odds

Would half a dozen chariots be a better use for my Math chops than infrastructure and wonders? I'm kinda lukewarm on Stonehenge at this point; Pyramids would be a nice prize, but would it benefit me more than an investment in military? As I said before, my start seems set up for early aggression, and so far I've been anything but aggressive. Basically, Thoth's city is a way better expansion option than the icy sheep spot (the orange dot from T50 overview), which is the best city I can settle myself

Thoth's city was settled T31, meaning just with Cre culture it will go to 40% cultural defence on T81. Probably sooner if he gets a library. Wouldn't it be nice to take it before then.....

[yuris125]

Imagine having 7 cities to build 7 stables

So, outline of a plan: Ishgard single-whips a chariot once it finishes barracks / grows to 4. Not like it has the 4th good tile to work. Then we chop 4 forests around the city, staggering them to avoid wasting overflow. The city slow-builds the 6th chariot in the meantime. Just before it regrows to 4, we set up an axe double-whip (if possible, axe double whips will be a pain to set up in this city, there's too many hammers around), and whip axe into archer, so that we have defenders for the city once we take it. This should be a good enough force for ~T65, when the attack would hit. Unless Thoth gets a couple spears, in which case we abort, cry, settle the icy sheep spot, cry some more, and come up with a new plan

Research after Math is Sailing, Kugane needs its Lighthouse. Then probably Masonry, Kugane also wants its Moai, and I want to have the stone improved for that. We also keep all the forests around the capital with this plan, could still try for Pyramids once workers fulfil their military duties. Although we will need all 4 of them on the frontlines if the attack goes ahead, roading the tile NW of the wheat to launch the attack, and then further NW to get defenders into the city if the attack succeeds

[yuris125]

Do you know that chopping a tundra forest takes 4 turns? I'm sure you do. But I didn't. Now I cannot start a chariot immediately after Ishgard grew to size 4, because I cannot finish the pasture in time

Oh well. I'll put a turn into a settler, I guess

Commodore revolted to HR/Serfdom, confirming that his Oracle was for Monarchy. He's also still on 2 cities? What's up over there?

Superdeath researched HBR. I assume those keshiks of his aren't coming for me.....

[yuris125]

The workboat is showing a lot of green jungled land to Thoth's north (will post a screenshot when next turn comes around). Obviously I'm only seeing coastal tiles now, but it definitely feels like there's enough room for both of us...

...except Thoth's city is blocking me off. There's no two ways about it, I'm not going to be competitive in the game without taking it

Started chariot build-up in Ishgard. Annoyingly, the delayed switch to sequential turns means the attack will likely happen before the switch, and obviously I can't come out and straight up say it in the tech thread