Worker vs workboat is interesting because by the easy, lazy metrics (basically time to first Settler) Worker First seems clearly better here, for basically the reason Tarkeel identified: With no 3f unimproved tiles, the advantage of Workboat First comes in the form of more production into Warriors (or 'henge if you start with Myst, I guess?) and commerce. With barbs off and neighbors distant, warriors are less valuable than on a normal map, so it ends up being a question of how you value scouting and tech against a slightly faster snowball. I don't think it's completely clear, but I'd probably take the Worker start too in most of these positions - depending on how tech-limited I feel with my early gameplan and civ and maybe what my city borders and first scout move reveal.
All that said:
(June 17th, 2023, 22:49)greenline Wrote: You can roast me in the lurker thread if I'm wrong about this
Well, if you insist. Worker first is fine; it's probably better for your start with these map settings, although it's more complicated and less certain than it looks. But. Don't move your Settler east; it's a trap!!! Spoilers for my excessively-verbose reasons:
Yes, yes, you still hook up the wheat tiles on the same turns as otherwise, and maybe you're not valuing one extra turn of working the fish very highly because you're not hooking it first? But that's a very good tile, plus you've got a 4FH unimproved tile and a plains hill start, and moving means missing a turn of all of that while you wait for your wheat to be improved. It might not seem like a huge deal, but you end up missing about three different breakpoints that way and everything gets delayed except the farms: Lose a Worker turn that builds half a road, lose a turn moving the workboat to the Fish, lose a turn to reach size 3, all compounding each other. On top of that, you're killing a forest and a full turn of research - and what do you gain? Giving up a couple water tiles to get land tiles you won't need the capital to work until the Renaissance era? Giving up three tiles you need a galley to improve to get three tiles that don't need one but that you probably shouldn't bother to improve before you could well have a galley anyway? Oh, and it makes it harder to plant a city to share the wheat (and/or elephants) too. Sure, if you find resources in the fog with your Scout move, that obviously changes things, and once you're on the tile 1E, I definitely wouldn't recommend moving back. If you had your pick, you'd probably be better off on the 1E tile from the beginning, even. But the difference is isn't worth wasting an entire turn of foodhammer production and tech; it isn't actually even close!
This map is shockingly fertile. The two actual greens here have performed pretty well, although Ancient Era War is now raising its ugly head, no idea why Xist felt the need to fight but eh, it's newbieness.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.
Reload seems sensible for something that's obviously a misclick with unusually high ramifications. I know there's not a lot of eyes on this game, but any other feelings?
Reload seems fine. I haven't followed the game very closely but the field seems less green. Just a few years ago we had players pick PHI Korea for the Seowon and learning what sandboxes were. This is a different, more competent world.
Seems like kind of a dumb reload IMO but given low visibility on this game + greens game, seemed even worse to drag it out longer.
Seriously though, why is civac sharking this game? It's honestly a bit ridiculous. I can't be the only one who thinks this is dumb, right? Bing himself is sort of borderline to even be in this, but civac is clearly heavily involved in this and looks like he's just going to lap the field.
Edit: I feel strongly enough about this that I wonder if we should ask civac to step back from this game and make Bing play it solo. Or at least step back to adviser in the way other players have rather than outright turn players. Is that an unreasonable idea? Would hate to see the game ruined for the greener players here.
(July 19th, 2023, 04:24)Qgqqqqq Wrote: I dunno. Is Bing performing that well?
Based on a cursory glance at the threads, it definitely seems like he is ahead of the pack, yes. Score and cities aren't everything, but the two of them combined are a pretty reliable indicator.
Having reviewed everything, I don't think he should be asked to stop taking part at all. However, he does seem to be logging in a fair bit, so it could be reasonable to ask him to consider how much he's contributing to the game vs. Bing, and whether he should tone it back a bit. Perhaps a PM would be the best way to do this?
Also, I don't think Bing is borderline, even though he's played quite a few games.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
