[Spoilers] luddite tries to remember how this game works

[luddite]

So the map size is officially "small..." Unfortunately for me, "small" on Big and Small is not so small. That's, what, 15 cities per person if it gets divided evenly? I really wish I hadn't gotten stuck with start 5. I'm worried that the others will just be far ahead economically before I can even meet them.

[luddite]

OK So here's what I've got right now for an opening based on sims. Based on mind, this is just based on what I could see from the starting shots, but those were made before the map was finished. This is likely to change as I explore and see the real map. In particular, there weren't any great city spots visible in that shot, so if I find any I'll settle differently.

I settled in place, mostly so I could share the pigs with the second city (Bombay) over in the east. Started with a worker, researched hunting->bronze working. Pretty confident of all that.

Worker finishes, improve the two deer (thanks, fast worker!), grow to size 3 while making a warrior. Then mine the pigs (it's a good tile), revolt to slavery (because the city grows faster than the worker can improve pigs). medium confident here. research fishing

less confident: what next? What I did here was build a second worker with chops. Then chop a settler, chop a 3rd worker and fishing boats, then grew to 4 and whipped a second settler. Also, I put in a copper, just a guess that the non-forest plains hill to the north seems sus. Research wheel, ag, now working on pottery.

Pros: gets 3 workers and 2 settlers reasonably fast. Gets a trade route connection. Chops a lot of forests, which seems like the best early investment for India. Several warriors finished also (for scouting, city garrison, whatever).

Cons: Lots of forests gone. I researched fishing just for Bombay, and Agriculture just for Vijayanagara. I'm still a long way from pottery. All my cities are small, and none are in such a great location. Currently the copper and pigs are both not being worked. No cottages.

This is OK but it feels suboptimal. I'm thinking: delay the 2nd settler, go for pottery and a granary first. Once I've got a granary I can whip settlers like nobody's business. I should make sure all the resource tiles in the capital are always being worked.

Thoughts?

Other question: are barracks worth it? I'm mostly just using them as a hammer dump while I regrow after whipping. But I could do the same with warriors, or artillery, or axemen after connecting copper. I'm thinking that the initial attack needs to hit earlier, rather than later, so the 50 hammers of a barracks would be better spent on extra units. Even just a warrior might be useful. Then again, guerilla on an AT or city raider on an artillery might make a big difference.

[Tarkeel]

OK So here's what I've got right now for an opening based on sims. Based on mind, this is just based on what I could see from the starting shots, but those were made before the map was finished. This is likely to change as I explore and see the real map. In particular, there weren't any great city spots visible in that shot, so if I find any I'll settle differently.

Nothing visible in the 7x7 has changed.

[luddite]

I'm thinking this is slightly better? It's basically the same, except that I went for pottery before agriculture, and settled in the south. I'll whip a work boat for it from Bombaby. It's going to take a while to get there, but it also gives me silver.Meanwhile the others can grow by building granaries and maybe make some cottages.

cons: I'm still not working the copper. Feels wrong to research pottery just before agriculture. Vijay will take a long time to be worth anything. And since it's in the ice, that probably means the south pole, when I'd rather settle towards the center of the map towards other players.

edit: thanks for the clarification, Tarkeel.

Wait, I just got your name. Is that a NC Tarheel reference?

[luddite]

One more alternative: It's like the first (settling 3rd city to the NW and going ag before pottery). But here I didn't resort to slavery. It's all just chopping + normal production, mostly from special resource titles. I think that's more efficient than slavery when I don't have granaries yet, right?

Main advantage here is that the capital is size 3 and has some hammers in the next settler already. Bombay will finish the workboat before the settler, so that should jumpstart Vijay in the south. Major con is that I still need to revolt to slavery.

[Tarkeel]

Wait, I just got your name. Is that a NC Tarheel reference?

I had to google that, so no it isn't. It started as the name of one my early RPG characters in Star Wars, name is inspired from this card (but without any deeper reference):

[chumchu]

Do you have save files on hand with the start and your 3 different sims? It is easier for me to follow along than .

About slavery/granaries. Slavery is ok before granaries. At 4 pop it can convert 50 food + 1 happy to 60* modifiers production. For us as imp, this is an efficient way to get settlers with our high food capital. After granaries the food cost is much less and slavery that much better of course.

About barracks. They are usually too slow for early game. Better to get build warriors for scouting, fogbusting, and military police for happy. In this case I think we should aim to whip a few out in our main unit production centers before we start the build up. They cost a third of an artillery but add a lot of value to the unit, especially if we build a few in that city.

[pindicator]

Hey luddite, hope you had a happy 4th! I think I prefer the southern settling because you're picking up far more bonus tiles (Fish + Crab + Silver) than the northern spot (just Wheat).

[luddite]

Do you have save files on hand with the start and your 3 different sims? It is easier for me to follow along than .

About slavery/granaries. Slavery is ok before granaries. At 4 pop it can convert 50 food + 1 happy to 60* modifiers production. For us as imp, this is an efficient way to get settlers with our high food capital. After granaries the food cost is much less and slavery that much better of course.

About barracks. They are usually too slow for early game. Better to get build warriors for scouting, fogbusting, and military police for happy. In this case I think we should aim to whip a few out in our main unit production centers before we start the build up. They cost a third of an artillery but add a lot of value to the unit, especially if we build a few in that city.

Attached a save file for the start and the 2nd/3rd sim. I don't have one for the first. (zipped because it says I'm not allowed to attach civ4 save files?)
I thnk you're right in theory about early slavery, it's just hard to find a good chance to make use of it here. It might get more total production, but at the cost of putting more hammers into warriors (while regrowing) rather than settlers/workers. I want to put overflow into a worker/settler, and then I don't want to sit around with a half-finished one while I wait to regrow. But maybe it's worth it to do one-pop whips? Maybe I should be patient, delay the early settlers, and grow to size 4 then 1-pop whip from there.

Hey luddite, hope you had a happy 4th! I think I prefer the southern settling because you're picking up far more bonus tiles (Fish + Crab + Silver) than the northern spot (just Wheat).

Thanks! Yeah, that's true, but the problem with southern settling is it requires work boats. I can't build them there quickly because it has no forests to chop, and my capital isn't coastal. It'll take a long while to get going, either building them from the eastern city and sailing them around, or waiting to build them with just one mine. At least the northwestern wheat city has some forests, and can get going with just worker turns. Then again, the southern city could mine the silver and add some decent commerce while it slowly builds a workboat. I think this comes down to commerce vs production.

[luddite]

I thought of a good trick I can use for this. I know it's probably obvious what I'm planning with artillery, but still I don't want the exact timing to be too obvious. If I do a gradual buildup they'll just match me, because it will be obvious from the power graph.

However, artillery unlocks not just one, but two very good units. I can whip an artillery, but not finish it, just leave it in the queue. Switch over to an AT. Regrow and whip that one too. Then when the time comes, every single one of my cities will simultaneously finish an AT one turn and an artillery the next. Plus probably an axe or spear with the overflow. I could go from zero military to 18 units in just 3 turns, and that should really catch people by surprise.

Of course, that makes the micro hard and a bit suboptimal. It's not as efficient as just whipping them one by one.
But I think it's worth it for a power spike like this:
edit: the earlier part is normal production, the latter part is me saving production through the queue