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As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer |
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[PB72 SPOILERS] Aetryn learns humility
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https://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strateg...eferences/
Honestly I just keep this in my Civ bookmarks folder and painstakingly dig through it every time a bulb question crosses my mind. 
T62 - Wanted: a sane neighbor
So in the aftermath of the second almost-war in the south, now we can finally settle down and improve some tiles around Prudence, like this nice rice... wait, what's that you say?  Okay, this is really getting ridiculous. There is tons of unclaimed land to the east, there's Readerium and the Aztec Juggernaut expanding off to the west, and... why is Rome settling this city? It claims a pig he already had and probably eventually takes a couple river tiles from Prudence, but he's almost certainly not going to get the rice unless he puts a lot of effort into it. He surely has to have had better options than this for settling. And he went up another 9k troops. And now has Iron Working, so I guess I should expect Praetorians any day now. Well, time to make conquest as painful for him as possible.
T64: Hope for the best
City #6 founded... and I'm still slower than Bingvacztecs (I also somehow have more land, which seems odd, so possibly his cities are clustered closer together than mine and sharing food, making whipping settlers easier).  It actually turns out I probably founded this city a couple turns too quickly, actually. The Work Boat I made in the capital hasn't made its way up to net the crabs, meaning this city is actually hurting my sad economy even further. Somehow everyone in the game has a significantly bigger GNP than me, and while Greenline has PRO and Bing has 6 culture over me, that doesn't fully explain their lead. They must either have metals already being worked in a city or closer cities costing less maintenance, or possibly both. Well, at least the borders will pop faster and it will grow to size 2 one turn earlier. This city is cute - it's almost at the north pole - that is the actual edge of the map north of the city - it doesn't even have a third ring set of tiles up there!. It's also interesting in that it has only 4 non-peak land tiles, and 3 of them are silver. Almost every workable tile for this city will qualify for the Financial bonus (and odds are very good I never work the lone tundra hill). I named this city Hope because it's my main way of getting myself out of financial hole I've gotten myself into - working triple silver and lighthoused lakes (and crabs) will pay for city maintenance and power my research. Too bad that day is about 20-25 turns off. Hope is the desire of something together with the (usually uncertain) expectation of obtaining it. I have passed through times in my life when I had very little hope, and would confidently say this is the one virtue that is essential to life. The man without hope for anything will soon find it hard to continue doing anything at all. There are two ways to mangle hope - the most obvious is despair, but there is also its opposite - presumption: the belief that the thing hoped for is assured, need not be worked for, need not even be kept in the mind. Chesterton on hope: "The heresies that have attacked human happiness in my time, have all been variations either of presumption or of despair; which, in the controversies of modern culture, are called optimism and pessimism." Hope is humble; it does not presume the thing that is hoped for. Chesterton again, in one of my favorite passages from Orthodoxy: "But all the optimism of the age had been false and disheartening for this reason, that it had always been trying to prove that we fit in to the world. The Christian optimism is based on the fact that we do NOT fit in to the world. I had tried to be happy by telling myself that man is an animal, like any other which sought its meat from God. But now I really was happy, for I had learnt that man is a monstrosity. I had been right in feeling all things as odd, for I myself was at once worse and better than all things. The optimist's pleasure was prosaic, for it dwelt on the naturalness of everything; the Christian pleasure was poetic, for it dwelt on the unnaturalness of everything in the light of the supernatural. The modern philosopher had told me again and again that I was in the right place, and I had still felt depressed even in acquiescence. But I had heard that I was in the WRONG place, and my soul sang for joy, like a bird in spring." Bet you didn't expect two PB72 threads to get deep into books, eh? (July 15th, 2023, 17:19)scooter Wrote: Seems like you settled a backline spot rather than something contested. Is it because you're really happy constrained, or something else? Would be curious to see a more detailed post on future settling plans and order priority. I settled this spot primarily for the commerce potential, as I'm somewhere around 25% research breakeven and really wanted to a) be able to work silver at size 2 and b) have pretty much every tile get the Financial bonus and produce 3+ commerce. Sailing comes in 2 turns, and I either chop + 1 pop whip a lighthouse or maybe grow to 4 and 2-pop whip it, and then go nuts with 3-food/3-commerce lakes. And of course, 3 silver tiles to work! This map has some very distinct differences with my past experience with Civ 4: a) foreign trade routes are really hard. No sea really goes anywhere, and nobody really has an incentive to connect roads. Xist clearly isn't going to cooperate with me at this point, and the other two players are 20+ tiles away. That means that I really can never count on anything but local trade (and probably makes PRO underrated on this map). There also don't appear to be any islands, so tiny internal trade routes it is! b) There's a huge area of uncontested land both to my east and to my west, though the western land is hard to get to due to the mountain range. There's really not a lot of rush to settle to the east at this point, so I'm mostly just picking the best spots. I mostly don't need the extra happy yet, though I do want to grow my first three cities when I can afford to. c) Because of the landforms near me, a lot of my cities are further than normal distances apart, which is hurting maintenance. I'm reluctant to sprawl out faster than my commerce can actually support. Basically all three of these add up to the need for commerce, and not as much concern with taking more territory. The one clearly contested place is here:  I was planning to settle this very soon, but there are two axes attacking from this direction, and I don't have enough of an army currently to cope with escorting and establishing that city (I may not even be able to prevent the pigs at Patience from being pillaged, if he goes that way). These two axes sort of slow-fork Patience and Prudence, but Patience will have a Skirmisher on duty before he can attack, and Prudence can easily have one by chopping as well. He also had another axe poking around in the east, but that is a REALLY long detour for his forces and I already have a Skirmisher in Diligence (and lots of vision from culture on peak tiles) so I'm not currently worried about the east. It would be bad not to get this western contested site, as it would leave me no real land route to the west at all, but I could build a galley at the capital and ferry a settler/escort west if I do get cut off, and the reality is I'm not in a position to claim it right now anyway. I will settle it as soon as it is safe to do so. The next city I will be building is here:  As the sign says, settle planned for T70 (coming from the capital, where you can see it being produced). It claims horses, shares capital food, can work a capital cottage and 3 river cottages of its own, eventually gets a bit of food of its own, and has a bit of production in the copper and all the hills, making this kind of a hybrid city. It's probable I should have settled this already, but until I had Stonehenge it was dubious to settle because so many good things are second ring, and after Stonehenge the uber-commerce site in the northeast took precedence, and given where my first two cities went this was a bit of a backline location that wasn't as important to claim. Of course, if Xist is going to keep tossing axes at my cities I'm going to wish I had chariots ten turns ago, not fourteen turns from now. Also, pictured above, my first hamlet, currently being worked by Faith!  Beyond these two cities, plans are very vague at the moment just because my economy is so terrible. As lighthouses in the 3 northern cities come online and some riverside cottages mature to hamlets, I expect to pull out of the doldrums and probably be able to settle more. My info on the west is very poor because one of my scouts was needed for a long time watching Xist, but has recently moved up there to give me a better idea of what kind of land is that way. Here's what I have for the east. Vaguely nice, but probably not too useful for Calendar. Of note, Xist is southwest of here and has inland sea and a mountain chain largely blocking him from easily getting up here. Greenline is a long way east, and Bing is southeast of the edge of this picture. Of course, having posted this I'm sure now everyone will settle this land while I try to pull my economy out of the depths and I'll end up with none of it  
So to answer Aetryn question of "why am I so broke and my opponents aren't?".
In PB54 I played my first doughnut map and I was shocked by how expensive cities were. The reason is pretty obvious: Distance maintenance. -Aetryn - mountains west and southeast. First 3 cities settled pretty far away toward better center land. It wasn't until city 5 Aetryn settled something close and after city 7 there isn't another close city to settle. BTW Aetryn distance maintenance works same as culture rings for increasing cost. This problem isn't getting better going forward and while eventually can settle cities WAY west will never settle cities north. Aetryn really got screwed merely by a random roll of starting position. - I know Greenline is protective but Greenlines cap is more center in the map (where you want to be anyways) and we know of first 3 cities he has placed 1 city south of his capital fairly close, but that also leaves him with probably north and east to expand to (unless mountain chains like ones around Aetryn exist). Even when Greenline eventually expands west the cities will be close. - Xist - I'm honestly shocked has a better gnp as he has done two far flung cities, but even still probably has about same distance maintenance. He has one seafood expansion, but maybe he has a luxury metal or beaver helping out somewhere, but ya it looks list he is next lowest. - Bing who knows how he is paying for all the expansion with his traits. I probably should have pointed out this problem earlier, but I don't think it will change anything, it kind of just has to be played through. (July 15th, 2023, 18:32)Mjmd Wrote: So to answer Aetryn question of "why am I so broke and my opponents aren't?". Good news is that this turn I was still last in GNP, but I only trail the leader by 4 GNP. Yeah, if you look at that land of the east, while it has terrible food bonuses, it's a lot more broadly open, leaving room to settle adjacent to the capital. I got a landform that really pushed me to settle farther away. I think it will eventually bite the others as they settle more, so I'm not really broken up about this, just trying to compensate and hopefully NOT be as broke in 10 turns. I'm not sure I have a lot of desire to play on this maptype again for multiplayer, but it's certainly been an interesting and unique experience. Might as well make the best of what I have, right? EDIT: Also, Bing's cities almost have to be closer together than mine. I've got 9 more tiles than him despite him being Creative and, say, his 6th city already having popped borders and mine not.
T69: War today
So I've had about enough of the aggressive play from Xist:
I get it, he's picked a military combo and I'm his near neighbor, and probably doesn't think I can defend properly (it remains to be seen if I can!) But he had a number of opportunities to de-escalate and, oh, I don't know, come back with an unstoppable force of Praetorians I would have struggled to beat. Instead he's continued to pressure. I wouldn't want him to think I'm just a punching bag for him and am not capable of aggression myself. So last turn I did this (sorry for the action being in the corner of the image):  I didn't even execute this properly as I roaded the tile southeast of Prudence one turn early and gave away the game (I've also been observing turn split for a couple turns). Anyway, he didn't reinforce, and in fact pulled back the axes on the western flank. Well, I'm sorry, but you could have de-escalated about 15 turns ago. Or even sent me a binding Peace treaty, which I might have considered to settle City 8 without interference. So here we go, my first multiplayer war is unexpectedly an offensive one:  He's pulled the warrior back, and has an axe that can counterattack. But I've got really good odds with just the 2 axes, so in we go:  Axe was still pretty healthy at the end, but I'm not certain I've accounted for all his military and I'd rather preserve the spear and skirmisher for the next round, so I deleted the axe, retreated the others, and sent him a 10-turn peace treaty. I don't see why he would accept this, but maybe he'd rather actually build up some troops and prepare for the next round, so I guess we'll see. Either way, cost me 2 axes to kill an axe and a city, which is a trade I will take, and slows down him his cultural progress on Prudence's second ring tiles even if he takes the peace treaty and re-founds. I think his military consisted of roughly 5 axes and 2 spears, of which I just killed one axe, one is visible in the south, one is in sight of Diligence in the east, one is in vision on the west, and the final one was hanging around the city 8 site 2 turns ago, so can't be very far away. So I don't think he has anything unexpected to hit me with yet. But, uh, I'm very new at this and don't really trust my ability to read soldier demographics perfectly.
T70: The Tides of War roll in
Xist's response was to send me a peace treaty demanding Prudence. Maybe I can't defend it. But I'm not giving it up without trying. So the war continues. And in roll the axes from all sides:  That is 2 axes and a scout in the west, an axe and two warriors in the south, and one axe in the east. The east looks safe. I just chopped an axe to completion in Diligence, and if that axe moves off the hill it's going to get clobbered by an axe-skirmisher-warrior combination and cleaned up. I assume he will probably just leave it there to pin forces in Diligence. The south is pretty safe, for now. One axe and two warriors aren't going to take a spear and skirmisher in a city. However, I'm 90% sure there's another axe down there out of sight that was produced a couple turns ago and should now be close to the battlefield. Still, I have some time to prepare, I've moved some workers north of the city to prepare a chop, and I have a 2 pop whip of an axe ready to go if I can hold out 3 more turns to use it. The west looks dangerously exposed. I just whipped the Barracks to completion and it has enough overflow to finish a unit the next turn, and probably another unit the following turn. So I don't think I lose the city. But I probably lose the pigs, maybe for quite a long time. I also foolishly 2-pop whipped Humility to finish its granary this turn playing the "peaceful" half of the empire before I spent a lot of time analyzing the southern half of the map, and I probably could have spent that on an axe whip instead. In better news, I might actually have some Chariots in about 12 turns, because I founded a new city this turn:  Fortitude adds to the military potential of our empire, making it a fitting name, and also makes sense given the current war - I will need Fortitude to hold for 12-ish turns for chariots to ride to the rescue. I probably should have settled this city ahead of Faith since I could tell Xist was reacting aggressively, but I really didn't expect a mass axe rush when he has Praetorians available soon. This city mostly exists to claim horses, but it's not bad. It'll work a capital cottages, some river cottages, have a bit of food of its own and a copper tile for production. I don't expect great things out of it but it shouldn't be a drain on the empire. Well, except for the research rate right this minute. Science rate is down to a downright amazing 5%, but some of that's temporary from the recent whips. The silver is also about to come online in Hope. Still, I think I've succeeded in crashing the economy. Fortitude is the virtue of sticking to something despite adversity, sometimes extreme adversity. It's quite hard to get much done in life without at least a bit of this virtue. As C.S. Lewis says, "You will notice... that you cannot practice any of the other virtues very long without bringing this one into play." Those without fortitude are the seed scattered on the rocky soil. Outside service in the armed forces, few people in the modern, developed world seem to acquire much fortitude, and I find it difficult myself to face hardship when maybe there's an easier way out. I used to complain why I needed to get up early to take a family member to the airport, or if it was too hot, or I didn't get enough time to relax after work. I probably still do this more than I'd like to admit, but I'm trying to recognize that most of the trials that come my way are actually met with really very little effort and a modicum of discipline on my part. However much you personally may find religious practices like fasting silly or pointless, I will say that doing it taught me that initially I can more easily tolerate unpleasantness and adversity I myself have chosen, and that having done this it's also easier to tolerate unpleasantness I didn't choose. |
