[PB70 Mjmd] STAND AS ONE!

[Mjmd]

T162



I guess the lesson is in diplo there are good reasons to chuck stuff out, because it might stick?

To Scooter

Mjmd — 07/16/2023 11:55 PM
I don't suppose you would want peace to teleport your army home?

I assumed there was no way he would accept this .

But today......

Superdeath — Today at 6:47 PM
Would  like to propose straight peace + OB between Mjmd/Superdeath/Scooter, and it must be all or nothing for both of us
can login and send it so you can open it before playing, if that helps.
Mjmd — Today at 7:00 PM
I will peace. I dont know if scooter will
Superdeath — Today at 7:02 PM
ill login and send. Scooter says he will as well. He came up with the idea.

Now it wasn't all my troops positioning I don't think. I had also planted seeds of doubt in SDs mind much earlier even as early as when war started 



Today before above quote of Scooter coming up with idea



I'm curious how much they were all communicating. Did Charriu know that I had stuffed my southern cities and SD couldn't make progress? Did Charriu know losses and situation SD was in. I'm curious if SD knew Scooter was going to land. Scooter could have provided collateral for a push. It is pretty evident SD at least wasn't thrilled by Charriu's lack of commitment. I mean to be fair to Charriu, it was his way to win the game. However, A) it looks like SD has investigate levels of EP and B) its a diplo game so you can ask awkward questions like "heh why aren't you committing more to this effort". 

Anyways, here is disposition of SD forces. I could 100% have killed most of this with this arrangement (which to note SD played before had decided to do peace treaty).



I'm curious about Scooters landing WAY up here in this configuration; it is odd. Was he hoping for Charriu reinforcements? Did Charriu say no? Something else?



Combat from SDs turn. 



I went on to rebuild camp on deer and the 1 fully pillaged cottage. Overall I didn't suffer as much pillaging as I could have. Lots of whip and draft anger, low pop, and 1 lost city, but could have been worse. I immediately put banks in the main econ cities of course! I also of course started figuring out best way to move large amounts of units north. 

I sadly couldn't hit Charriu's retreating army next turn with much. I would have had to transport 3 workers, which means I could only transport 6 units all the way up. With what was there it wasn't enough. But in any case slower more massive movements happening. 

I also worked out a mercenary deal with SD. 50g per killed Charriu unit and 60g for each lost cuir. I don't know if this was smart, but figure faster I can conquer Charriu the better. I did leave all my pikes in the south and haven't fully stopped producing them.

[Qgqqqqq]

So what actually happened? Did you make peace with everyone? Or only SD?

[Mjmd]

The last screenshot is reflective of game state. Peace with SD and Scooter, war with Charriu.

The deal Scooter and SD wanted was peace with both of them or not at all. While I have no doubt I could have cleared it would have resulted in a lot of lost troops. Troops that can now be used conquering new territory, which SD and Scooter must have known. But as stated they wanted Charriu to do more and he wasn't.

Which makes sense. One of the things I pointed out to Charriu at the start of the war was that he wasn't likely to get a lot of the spoils with 1 movers. He could have whipped knights to change this somewhat though. However, he still had problem that if I collapsed too fast SD would then run right into his army and recent conquests. Charriu 100% played the right way to win. However, this meant his allies weren't happy with him. Charriu was hoping for some massive clash between SD and I and both of us weakened, but SD rather than let that happened turned against his ally he saw wasn't doing enough. Scooters exact mind state I couldn't guess at. I thought for a bit he wasn't going to kamikaze and then he did, but then he was ok with peace? A question for post game.

[pindicator]

Well done on diffusing the dogpile. Diplomacy definitely makes them easier to set up - but you definitely showed how it makes it easier for you to find cracks and end it!

[Mjmd]

Well done on diffusing the dogpile.  Diplomacy definitely makes them easier to set up - but you definitely showed how it makes it easier for you to find cracks and end it!

I mean I had both their armies trapped so that also helped.

T164

Power graphs for war. No big shark fins. Mine is probably slightly worse than it looks as I was building a lot during that time.



I'm currently regrowing some VERY whipped cities back to size 6 to draft again, but then will be whipping them down again pre peace expiring. You know, just in case.

SD did take my mercenary offer of 50g per kill and 60g for each lost cuir of his (I don't remember historic term, but pretty common). I figure an incentive based structure makes the most sense rather than paying him a lump sum for help and hoping he follows through....... Could this be a lot of gold outflow. YOU BET. That is what those banks are for. But at the end of the day if I can absorb Charriu and I don't have to spend many troops while a rival is losing some, seems worth.

Scooter is taking pig marble island between himself and Charriu. If he hadn't contacted me I would have snipped the nearer one (he already landed at other). I probably should have anyways, but I can use those troops elsewhere better I think.

[Mjmd]

T168

Conquest of Charriu is going pretty good. Sold NE city to Bing. I couldn't have taken the culture of the crab he settled for ages ago and my army will be headed back after current conquests so unsure Charrius NE city will fall.



I'm second guessing the whole paying for mercenary services. On one hand one of the war opponents is dead. But I had to make the most dangerous of them stronger, but I'm getting territory, but a lot of it won't be good for a while.

Meanwhile my UB library is finishing the great merchant. It has been since the dog pile began; 0 specialists worked since then. Sending it down to TOA SD city. I'll STILL have a 4 person GA incoming WITHOUT any free tech specialists. How Charriu still thinks America doesn't need nerfed is beyond me.

Drafting and whipping incoming in anticipation of treaty expiring.

1 bank is done and more are incoming. Trying to figure out timing of tech vs finishing banks. Also, trying to figure out WHAT tech I want. Rifles is obvious but far away. Probably still the target.

[Qgqqqqq]

MJ, you gifted a city to Bing?

That's not allowed in the rules outside of wartime.

[Mjmd]

I can war peace him this turn to fix it. I'm assuming Scooter wants me to lose the trade route income? I'm fine with that.

Edit: it was a sale yes. Sold for 150g. See reasons why the city was pretty worthless to me in last post. 

Didn't even think about it honestly; I thought I had changed the wording to 1 per deal, which is what I did PB72.

PB66 spoiler

It came up in PB66 too where I wanted to sell a city and we had to song and dance the war and then city in peace treaty. Which is why I've changed wording in voting spreadsheet.

[Mjmd]

T169

I offered Charriu peace for a city / even to trade cities (not sure if this would be allowed, but I noted that in offer; seems like it would as it essentially nets 0 cities instead of 1). Anyways, Charriu asked me why would I stop?

1) The biggest reason is that peace is about to expire with SD and Scooter. I'm not sure Charriu has been keeping track. As stated I have a bunch of whips I'm doing JUST IN CASE. Specifically frigates out east.
2) I specifically don't trust SD to not hit my army while its in weak culture.
3) SDs mercenary contract is both expensive and unreliable
   A) I'm spending a lot of gold for him to raze cities I'm not getting. So it will take a LONG time to payoff and I have to build settlers to even start that process. It has been worth it I think in terms of taking out someone who can dog pile me. I don't think Charriu will be a threat going forward, but it isn't worth it to continue pushing especially due to #1 and #2.
   B) SD and I had communicated that if I paid him timely he wouldn't raze cities I wanted. Obviously he couldn't give them to me as more than 1 would be outside of rules, but he wouldn't attack and raze them. He did this turn.......... Despite me having CLEARLY stating I was going after this turn and having my army visible to some of his troops. 
   C) Due to said SD action I imagine we are about to have a dispute over payment due. Hell if he had left it with 1 defender I would have been fine with that if he just wanted to rack up the bill, but razing it despite our agreement is going to be an issue. 

Again, I'm unsure if this whole mercenary thing was the wisest course of action to begin with, but I have gotten rid of one opponent and gained long term land.

[Mjmd]

Well I think I hopefully settled the situation. Basically conversation went thusly:

- I expressed my dissatisfaction pointing out prior communication > he claimed confusion was due to 3am playing (which is VERY possible) > he suggested a 100g discount > I pointed out the difference between razing and an intact city I could have taken easily myself > I proposed to let him pillage tiles up 2N of that to his hearts content, which value wise may be more? as there are a lot of towns, but I don't have to pay it out of my purse > also informed him I only needed his services for 1 more city.

How exactly that all came off to him is a different matter, but he seemed to be fine with it.