A new mod enters the ring - Introducing "Close to Home"

[superdeath]

put its bonus on University.

[greenline]

I think it'd be simpler to just increase the cost of the American library, as making it a university replacement would be very similar with the Russian UB

[superdeath]

The issue is, having ez GPP so early on a building like the Library.. makes the UB too powerful. Moving it back to University or something drastic like adding a bunch of hammers to the cost, would be my only solution imo.

[Mjmd]

Khemer do 60% IF you must. I don't think it needs changed at all personally. We nerfed that civ for a reason.....

America - needs a nerf. I've argued this extensively before and remain convinced.

I've been debating about org nerf for a while and I think the easiest nerf is to move the lighthouse bonus from org to exp. Exp needs a little more, org needs a little less. Don't get cute and overly complicated. This keeps main themes the same, but losses a significant buff to its early game.

I have some thoughts on late game stuff, but will post later.

[Miguelito]

- courthouse nerf please not. Less espionage makes the game less interesting, and I don't see how it's close to home. If you want to nerf Org I like Mjmd's suggestion of moving the lighthouse discount to Exp, although maybe at 50%. Gives both traits clearer identity. Or for a slighted nerf fiddle with the percentages of hammer boni/ maintenance discount
- America UB is very strong but I'm not sure it's broken. Moreover it's very interesting so let's not kill it. If a nerf is in order, how about making it available at maths (pretty severe), or require an additional tech like uh, masonry? Very slight nerf would be to restore the Navy SEAL, also in line with the spirit of the mod and at least there'd be one late game UU
- Khmer I don't think it's needed but won't do much harm either.
- why is the further praet nerf necessary?
- redentor, jets, advanced flight
- what is the submarine / attack sub swap trying to achieve? Just delay mobile missiles. Yeah I guess it's probably a good thing, even if antithematic. On that note, world it be possible and desirable to have subs and missile cruisers store up to 4 guided missiles OR just 1 nuke each? Also still believe nukes off ships should have just 1 range but we've discussed this

Finally a wish: can we make it so we can pillage our own roads and railroads? The way it is feels silly.

[Charriu]

Regarding the courthouse nerf. Like I said it would be better to move the +2 espionage from courthouse to a different building in the same time period. That way the nerf mostly affects ORG and not the overall game. I think moving the lighthouse bonus from ORG to some other trait wouldn't be good. First because it only affects ORG on water maps and second because I would at best have one bonus that relates to water on each trait. I know that is not the case right now. Right now EXP already has a water bonus in form of the harbor. It's not the greatest, but it is a water bonus. The harbor with its health bonus also fits the theme of EXP (although it would also fit PROs trade theme). Right now this is the state of water related bonuses in my opinion.

FIN - water commerce bonus
EXP - harbor production
CRE - popping borders on hammer poor coastal cities for those second ring sea food
CHA - upgrading ships is easier
PRO - no water bonus
IMP - no water bonus, maybe the settler bonus helps on water maps
AGG - drydock production
PHI - no water bonus
IND - you can build Moai faster and the other water wonders
ORG - lighthouse production


@Mig the idea behind the submarine swaps is to delay long range nukes in to a later turn. There is no distinction between guided missiles and nukes in terms of cargo. Would need to code that.
SPI - no water bonus

[Mjmd]

- Would courthouse nerf be for org or for everyone? Either way, I don't think its actually a big enough nerf and its certainly not close to home. If for some reason you feel a trait shouldn't have two water bonuses (not that I think it matters as you pointed out a couple have either none or minimal) then you could switch lighthouse and harbor for traits. Org gets harbor and expansive gets lighthouse. Keep it simple.
- America UB being unique is what makes it broken Mig. Move it to a later building if you want to keep it. Charriu I know you hate all the courthouse replacements, but it would fit there. Or move it down to +1 vs +2. Honestly when it was at +3 I was going to suggest +1 but knew that would never get across the line at the time, but maybe now? @Mig I don't think UU change would move the needle enough.
- Praet at 55h is still fairly cheap 8 strength unit. Agreed with nerf.
- Like moving Christo to mass media.
- I'm not as high on advanced flight no longer requiring satellite and basically requiring rocketry instead. While it makes sense thematically I'm not as high on balance implications. Mainly I think it would shorten the effective time of fighters quite a bit.
- Yes please to attack submarines carrying missiles. I think I like taking it completely off the regular sub (vs giving 1 slot which I've been thinking about). Basically delay when nukes can be effectively delivered by a tech. Making other tech options more appealing.

- I don't know if its possible, but would it be possible to code an intercept rate into recon mode; probably at some low % but maybe different percent's for different planes (although that prob balloons log too much). An airship being able to recon mode vision vs multiple fighters patrolling is REALLY annoying. Even if its like a 20% rate of intercept it would make keeping your fighters on intercept more important / which turns to do so more important. Knowing your opponent has almost perfect info of 12 tiles deep and there is nothing you can do about it is frustrating.

[Commodore]

As far as staying Close to Home I don't think any changes are needed. That being said I recently teched Alphabet early to build research to currency. Also, under build spears at your own risk. I can also think of three of my own recent games and I'm sure there are more where chariots have mowed down opponents with too few spears. As far as swords, I like them and have built them, but only when I KNOW I'm going to be assaulting a city. The problem is a lot of battles happen in the open or MAY happen in the open. That being said, they actually stay relevant fairly long if your opponent is huddling behind longbows they are a cheap sacrifice unit to break.

Pretty strongly agree with all of this.

Hear hear.

Reiterating that I'd really love to see no more changes "farther from home". I think Org is fine.

[scooter]

Would also suggest leaving things mostly alone. ORG is definitely strong, but it's situational. If you don't want it to be really strong, you could stop playing on Emperor and/or water heavy maps. I don't see this as any different from IMP being strong on big maps and CRE being strong on tighter maps, or even how FIN and water maps also interact.

[greenline]

You could sell me on buffing EXP. Would returning the worker bonus be too much?