[PB73 SPOILERS] scooter's Oracle

[scooter]

Isn’t it a little early to be planning a PYFT War?

It's never too early to wish for a PYFT war.

[Cyneheard]

Isn’t it a little early to be planning a PYFT War?

It's never too early to wish for a PYFT war.

Given my avatar's penchant for manipulating people into war, I can sympathize.

[Thoth]

Isn’t it a little early to be planning a PYFT War?

It's never too early for a PYFT war.   

[scooter]

Opened my trade window to this.





I rejected as I need the Copper for now, but I wonder if I ought to consider teching IW a bit sooner to find Iron so I can semi-permanently make this trade. Of course, there's something in this screenshot that I did not even notice until I went to move my Work Boat.





He's apparently doing the same thing I am and just dropping off settlers. Don't blame him. Looks like he'll be at 8 cities next turn. I offered him Open Borders, though we do not even have a trade connection apparently so it doesn't matter currently.





If Yuris was going to full send, an axe should have become visible this turn. However, if he was going to do that, it's possible he would wait one turn to combine the axes together. If that's the case, all 3 units will be visible together next turn. Really curious whether he will or not.





Founded Greg, appropriately close to Tom. This is where I'm legally obligated to include the following.

Anyway, this gave me visibility on a Fish, so maybe I will send a settler over that way next to get my third IC route. Fish is a bit awkward though as I'm unclear (yet) whether I need to settle on the desert or something north of the peak. I did do my GLH commerce check again this time.

Before

100%: +109b, -49g
50%: +54b, +5g
0%: +60g


After
100%: +126b, -57g
50%: +63b, +6g
0%: +69b

It was good that we nerfed this. I suspect in the pre-game planning there was not enough thought put in by some players to the implications of Vanilla BtS. It was meant to be another self-balancing lever. If you miss out on your Plan A tech, you could just index instead into vanilla power and then grab a tech that complements that.





Yeesh.

[scooter]

Re: Great Library vs. trying for Colossus after MoM -- How likely do we think it is that Oxy would quickly go for Polytheism and Aesthetics to unlock Literature, though? He's not warring so no chance to get Heroic Epic. He can't get a religion that way. Parthenon is ok for him since he has Rep, and same for Great Library, but is that really where he'll go ASAP?

I'd tend to think we can probably slip MC in between Calendar and Aesthetics / Literature to unlock forges and potentially make a play for Colossus, if it's still there, before we go for the top of the tree. Possibly we don't need Zerks soon, but being a bit closer to them should we discover an opportunity arising to use them might be handy, on top of the benefits of forge and potential Colossus. I imagine that if we're going to fall behind Oxy it'll be on account of hammers, not tech, so this seems further to argue for slipping MC in, and that seems like a convenient spot to do so.

I guess by then at least we should have a better idea of what Oxy is in fact doing, so what happens 2-3 techs after Currency + HBR isn’t a decision we have to make soon, we just need to focus on whether Iron + Calendar are in the near future or whether we’re going in a different direction.

Yeah these are some good points. The situation with regards to Oxy is that if we race him to any specific tech, we will win that race. So of the Classical wonders, if I want to guarantee any one specific wonder, I can do that pretty easily. He just can't tech fast enough. What he really wants to do is zag whenever I zig. If I go Metal Casting before Calendar, he could probably get to Calendar before I get both, for example. I've got about a week before I need to really commit to a path, but your point of why he might delay the Lit-Music path is very good.

[Zed-F]

I rejected as I need the Copper for now, but I wonder if I ought to consider teching IW a bit sooner to find Iron so I can semi-permanently make this trade.

We're about to finish Currency and you'd floated the idea of trading him a couple gpt for open borders, but this makes a good backup plan.

He's apparently doing the same thing I am and just dropping off settlers. Don't blame him. Looks like he'll be at 8 cities next turn. I offered him Open Borders, though we do not even have a trade connection apparently so it doesn't matter currently.

We ought to have a trade connection once he uses that settler to plant a city, though, I'd tend to think. OB with Oxy would be nice for certain -- our boat wants to see his core if we can, and more trade routers would be awesome -- though I don't see why he should want to give it.

If Yuris was going to full send, an axe should have become visible this turn. However, if he was going to do that, it's possible he would wait one turn to combine the axes together. If that's the case, all 3 units will be visible together next turn. Really curious whether he will or not.

I'd be kind of hesitant to risk all my axes until I'd built a spear to protect them, if I were in Oxy's place. He knows we have chariots and without the counter, they'd just be super-vulnerable. That's likely to delay any all-in attack until he's got one and moved it into position.

Anyway, this gave me visibility on a Fish, so maybe I will send a settler over that way next to get my third IC route. Fish is a bit awkward though as I'm unclear (yet) whether I need to settle on the desert or something north of the peak.

I guess a second desert city on that island would share oasis, but there's really a dearth of good tiles in the area that aren't oasis and coast, at least without investing a bunch of worker turns. It also looks like there's enough land north of the peak that we can probably settle at least one more city up that direction even if we do settle on the tile NE of fish. Of course if we settle on desert, a city 3N on grass could in principle share it, if there's more food up that way, but we really would need to know how much land there is and how densely the food is distributed up there to consider it. Regardless, it does look like this area should be a priority for one of our next island cities; it seems way easier to make something work quickly here than on South Island.

Other things I noticed:

Kendall growing to 6 in a couple turns -- are we planning to triple whip a settler? Seems reasonable.

It does look like we are proposing to take an axe on a boat ride after all. I do like the idea of trying to surprise / fork Yuris's east coast; even if we just delay/forestall an axe invasion by threatening to do real damage it's still a worthwhile result, and if he is planning an all-in axe attack, I think we can probably hold off a base trade and still cause havoc in his back lines.

[Qgqqqqq]

I couldn't resist global lurking with everything - sorry!

[Zed-F]

I'm curious about what we can learn from Oxy's recent score increases. I'm guessing it's got some culture inflation due to Terrace, but what else might be driving it? He hasn't been researching or building wonders faster than us, he hasn't settled more cities than us (yet)... but his cities are bigger on average. Does pop growth in larger cities give a bigger score increase than pop growth in smaller cities?

[Tarkeel]

Score wise all pop points are equal, but in demographics they scale geometrically.

[scooter]

Well, Zed-F was the person who noticed this vague noodle of an idea from well over a week ago.

I did see an int sign, though!

Nothing may come of it, but maybe?

It was in this picture that he noticed it.





The "67?" referred to the turn my Galley could theoretically make it to that tile. Basically after dropping off the southwest island settler, I knew my Galley was going to have some downtime. So I just started counting tiles and noticed I could get next to Adrianople quite quickly, and figured I'd just make a note of it in case I could scrounge up some units. But there really was no plan until a bit later when I worked out that yes, I could actually stick a Chariot on board. Zed-F's question of whether I was going to add an axe made me consider it, so I did. I'm glad I did.





Circumnav Vikings are busted. Far more than Rome or Byz ever were in Vanilla. Galleys should not be able to boat cities with popped cultural borders from the fog.





Just an axe. First off, I want to point out that I think Yuris got insanely unlucky here. Because he's got 3 workers he's covering with the Chariot, and I wonder if the Chariot just came from Adrianople and would have otherwise prevented all this? It sort of looks like it from the way it's positioned.





When I mentioned that I'm glad I brought that spare axe, it's because ... this was a loss.





But the loss came up just one hit short. I would have been very sad to lose that.





Burned to the ground. Yuris is down to 2 cities. I have 9. He still does not have HBR. Phracts feel pretty neutralized at this point. Absolutely massive. I cannot believe I was able to burn 2 cities pre-Phracts at the cost of 2 chariots, an axe, and a warrior. Sadly I forgot to delete the Axe, so Yuris is gonna get himself a promotion out of it.





Notice Oxy's borders are now peeking out through the fog. Oxy is actually closer than I expected.





Speaking of Oxy, I had to backtrack from the north. Oxy settled this city which bounced me south, and he of course declined Open Borders. So I'm going to have to locate his mainland a different way I guess.





This land mass is taking shape. Do notice the body of water next to the Work Boat is apparently a lake judging by tile yields. I think I might use this Work Boat for that Fish that we've seen through the fog. Kendall can triple whip a settler in a few turns, and I figure there's gotta be a good spot around the Fish near Greg. This Work Boat will probably arrive right on time to net that if I can find a spot I'm happy with. Anyway, I'd like to see the interior of this island, but overall this looks incredibly useful and important to control for the mid and late-game.





Logan hits size 9 with a lot of hammer overflow next turn. I have a few options I'm considering. I could squeak out a quick worker, or I could 1T a Barracks, or maybe this is Moai time which I think I could slow-build in like 4 turns. I'm trying to get some more mines online right now because a max hammer config is incredibly useful in this city.


Whew, big turn. Feeling really good about my position right now. Worth noting Oxy settled another city this past turn. That put him at 4 cities in 5 turns. That's the Joao power I've been waiting for. Really feels like the game will come down to my ability to leverage my teching and boats versus his Pyramids + Kremlin. I have a hard time seeing a way forward for the others.