[spoilers] Commodore is strategic in Pitboss 74

[Commodore]

Ugh. Reroll Both.

[Commodore]

I really wanted Carthage to work. :-/ The best food being AH really makes me want Agriculture in the start, and even Hunting would be better. Fishing is such a null tech that I have to give it up, nice as Cothons are.

Also, obviously starts are touched up but the script never gives capital peaks, so something very wonky happened with the map at this point. :-(

[Commodore]

Okay, round 2:

Gavagai is Huayana Capac of England

Superdeath is Louis XIV of Byzantine

Greenline is Shaka OR Mansa Musa OR Justinian of Aztecs

Commodore is Catherine OR Darius OR Hatsheput of Native America

Plemo is Charlemagne OR Saladin OR Victoria of Scandinavia

Bing is Napoleon of Khemer

Hubabl is Joao II OR Hammurabi OR Boudica of Celts

Amicalola is Ragnar OR Sitting Bull OR Isabella of the Ottomans

I got excited for a moment, and then I remembered that Native America got nerfed and is now Fishing/Hunting instead of Fishing/Agriculture. I really want Agriculture, but I'd take Hunting if it was paired with a more immediately useful tech. I'm going lock Darius and reroll civ.

[Commodore]

My full post in the lurker thread:
Gavagai is Huayana Capac of England

Superdeath is Louis XIV of Babylon

Commodore is Darius of Maya

Hubabl is Joao II of Korea

Greenline is Justinian of Aztecs

Plemo is Victoria of Scandinavia

Bing is Napoleon of Khmer

Amicalola is Ragnar of the Ottomans

Magic Science is Willem van Oranje of Mali

Dreylin is Mehmed II of Portugal

Scooter is Elizabeth of Japan

Piccadilly is Tokugawa of India

Miguelito is Roosevelt of Egypt

Tarkeel is Julius Caesar of Germany

General Kill Cavalry is Nebuchadnezzar (PHI/IND) of France

GT is Kublai Khan of Zululand

Pindicator is Zara Yaqob of Sumeria

Xist10 is Wang Kon of Rome

Donovan Zoi is Suryvarman II of Inca

Thanks Q.

I should have kept Carthage.

[shallow_thought]

A game this big will surely come down to neighbour luck and other factors beyond player control? And what matters is the story to be drawn from the raw material. We would be rash to hope for another Ottowa, but it's too early to draw sad faces, surely.

[Commodore]

A game this big will surely come down to neighbour luck and other factors beyond player control? And what matters is the story to be drawn from the raw material. We would be rash to hope for another Ottowa, but it's too early to draw sad faces, surely.

Oh of course, and there's a high probability that the +3  Ball Courts at the very least will eventually come in handy. I could even see some benefits of the Holkan. Mostly the awkwardness is from this start:

No accelerating techs, means it's in the very strict Agriculture->AH->BW->Wheel->Pottery start to get the worker working as best it can. Extremely locked-in start, just like with Carthage, but the Numidian and the Cothon are better long-term. I'm happy enough with the boring-but-best-economy-possible Darius.

Note I'm on the southern hemisphere, probably in a snaky bit due to the land type and shape. My start got moved from somewhere else, so it's probably mathematically positioned to be ~11-13 tiles from 2-3 other players to the north, east, and possibly south. If I have a southern neighbor he's going to be stuck up against the wall a bit and in danger.

[Commodore]

Request: Could I have the Carthaginian Orange at least?

[Qgqqqqq]

Yes.

Note that we may also alter the peaks.

[Commodore]

Opposing Force Analysis: Pitboss 74
So, here we go, back in action. 19 players on a heavily-edited Big & Small. Generally, a B&S will have a lot of coast, so Financial and Organized both look nicer, but as it appears my start has been moved bodily and placed artificially on a lush land construction (the stark plains and desert to the north is probably the native coastline), I suspect that means there will be fewer of the pleasing weird and isolated starts than normal. Huge-size B&S throws some massive continents, might be on a Pangea even, and I don’t assume islands will be easy to access here. So although I still rate water traits solid, they’re not so good as a natural B&S would have them.



Gavagai (Tenacious, Hateful) is Huayana Capac (FIN/IND) of England (Fishing, Mining, Redcoat, Stock Exchange)
Player Quality: ****
Early Strength: *
Late Power: ****
Fighty-ness: ****
Econatude: *****
Gavagai is my least favorite guy to neighbor, he’s competent but also completely unable to reach detente along a border without a crippling mass of units. He’ll be happy enough with his combo here, a solid economy base with Financial goes well with Industrious’ cheap forge buildup. England is doing him no huge favors, Rifling is a terribly-positioned tech, but the Stock Exchange is nice enough. Gavagai will be playing an extremely standard game here, with unfortunately a high likelihood that around turn 75 we see something about a 20-axe stack waddling over to hit a neighbor.



Superdeath (Careless, Violent) is Louis XIV (IND/CRE) of Babylon (Agriculture, Wheel, Bowman, Garden)
Player Quality: *
Early Strength: ***
Late Power: *
Fighty-ness: *****
Econatude: *
And hey, it’s my second-least-favorite neighbor, Superdeath. Prone to despair instantly, he’ll give up when he falls behind at some point and march his bowmen somewhere unpleasant for no gain. Ind at least means when he guts his development aiming for a too-early ill-conceived wonder, it’ll be slightly cheaper. Don’t expect anything impressive here, but he’ll be able ruin a game or two.



Commodore (Amusing, Diplomatic) is Darius (FIN/ORG) of Maya (Mysticism, Mining, Holkan, Ball Court)
Player Quality: ****
Early Strength: *
Late Power: *****
Fighty-ness: ****
Econatude: ******
I think you know me by this point, I’ve played all manner of games. As I mentioned, I have a leader with the best economy traits possible, so if I can just max out my fishing villages I’m going to effortlessly maintain tech here; the issue I’m going to need to be careful for is to maintain a strong MFG base. I’m not against making a rapid switch to a Holkan rush if the opportunity arises, but that’s a strictly contingent option. Should be fun.


Hubabl (Unknown, Slow) is Joao II (IMP/EXP) of Korea (Mysticism, Mining, Hwatcha, Seowon)
Player Quality: ??
Early Strength: ****
Late Power: *
Fighty-ness: ??
Econatude: ??
Mysterious and unknown, Hubabl makes me a little nervous with him talking about 24-hours being short for a turn. Guy most likely to murder the game with turn pace/newbie flaking. His combo is easy to hurt yourself with, as Joao makes fast cities and can crash long before the questionable hwatcha come online. Universities are meh, so Korea is pretty null.


Greenline (Opinionated, Alarmist) is Justinian (SPI/IMP) of Aztecs (Mysticism, Hunting, Jaguar, Sacrificial Altar)
Player Quality: **
Early Strength: ***
Late Power: ***
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: ***
Greenline is greenish, but clearly not a dumb guy, worth respecting. He’s going to be driving the very fun Justinian into turning the world green under Aztec domination, very neat setup. Imp can outrun those iffy start techs, which is dangerous, but Spiritual likes to have Slavery periods all game long, so the Sacrificial Altars are nice for their happy boost as well as the usual benefit of “cheap courthouse”. I hate the Jaguar UU, it’s a pure downgrade from the base sword, but hey, it’s a sword, not like it makes a big impact anyway.



Plemo (Hypercompetent, Inscrutable) is Victoria (FIN/IMP) of Vikings (Fishing, Agriculture, Berserker, Trading Post)
Player Quality: *****
Early Strength: ***
Late Power: ****
Fighty-ness: ****
Econatude: ****
Plemo’s got a solid rep, proven defeatable but never an easy challenge. I understand he’s excellent in the German games, and this is a worrisome combo to give him…Vikings are of course borderline broken on a naval map, but to also have Victoria, who makes more fishing villages faster than anyone else…ouch. Predict that Plemo will manage to get out to the midgame in a very solid shape already, and then you have a scary eruption of superior navy with superior amphibious ammo. Very very scary.



Bing (Affable, Daffy) is Napoleon (ORG/CHM) of Khmer (Hunting, Mining, Ballin’ Pants, Barry)
Player Quality: **
Early Strength: *
Late Power: **
Fighty-ness: *
Econatude: **
Poor Bing, that’s a not a lot of stars. I think he’ll be happy, he always seems to be…the leader doesn’t have a lot to accelerate things, and the civ is kind of null in 95% of cases, but I’m sure Bing will be cheery about things. Definitely marking him as potential food here, will probably have an undersized empire and there are no tools to reach for to make it scary. Kill before Construction or after Gunpowder, enjoy the settled Great People.


Amicalola (Underrated, Fretful) is Ragnar (FIN/AGG) of the Ottomans (Agriculture, Wheel, Janissary, Hanam)
Player Quality: ****
Early Strength: *
Late Power: ****
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: ****
I respect the hell out of Amicalola, very competent player here who seems to be quite good at the expansion and economy parts of the game, and then uses diplomacy to the best of his ability at good key points. His balanced style is complimented here by a solid combo…only the techs are a boost to the early game, but in the middle of the game muskets with +25% against mounted are a big deal, and Aggressive is of course wonderful for ease of amphibious access. Couple that with the simple goodness of Financial and I think with a decent neighbor set Amicalola can be a legit threat to win. Excited to see him back.



Magic Science (Entertaining, Storyteller) is Willem van Oranje (FIN/CRE) of Mali (Mining, Wheel, Skirmisher, Mint)
Player Quality: ***
Early Strength: ***
Late Power: ****
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: ***
Don’t sleep on the Magic Science thread…guy’s one of my favorite reporters, I’m bummed it’s going to be probably close to a year before I can read this one. I think he’s a solid and competent player, if at times a little unwise. His leader here is great with early game Creative and late game Financial, and that accompanies the early game security that is Mali’s strength-4 archers. I think he’s going to get out to a solid position early on, and then it’s going to be geography and game state to see if he can make some noise. So, like most of us, but his thread is going to be top quality.


Dreylin (Rusty, Smart) is Mehmed II (EXP/ORG) of Portugal (Fishing, Mining, Carrack, Fettoria)
Player Quality: **?
Early Strength: **
Late Power: *****
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: ****
A big question here in this game is going to be “how rusty is Dr. Eylin?” He was good back in the day, and he’s piloting a very solid combo here. As I well know, Portugal is a wonderful civilization long-term for these games, with both uniques having tremendous power in their day. Mehmed is a beast as well, with cheap granaries and harbors mattering as well as the cheap courthouses and lighthouses, and then in the endgame when industrialization hits Org is astonishing with factories. Just have to see if the skills have decayed.



Scooter (Crafty, Careful) is Elizabeth (FIN/PHI) of Japan (Fishing, Wheel, Samurai, Tatara)
Player Quality: ****
Early Strength: *
Late Power: ****
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: ****
The old hand who came back recently who we know has retained his skills is Scooter. He’s another extremely known quality, a good planner and aggressive tactician who understands diplomacy well. Elizabeth is going to be interesting to run, just about as slow as can be while also with amazing long-term potential. Japan doesn’t have much to speed things up until forges, with slightly cheaper tataras nice but hardly game-breaking. I don’t know how Scooter will run this challenge, but I expect him to be a strong contender, neighbors allowing.



Piccadilly (German, Quiet) is Tokugawa (AGG/PRO) of India (Mysticism, Wheel, Fast Worker, Mausoleum)
Player Quality: ****
Early Strength: ***
Late Power: **
Fighty-ness: *****
Econatude: **
I don’t know Piccadilly but I have a generally positive impression of the skills of the German forum. He’s got to get things going well for himself early before his special stuff fades in the later game. Fast workers aren’t the monsters of BtS but they’re still very nice, and early on Protective will boost his economy…but then everyone has open borders options, and worker counts are compensating, and then he’s just a gnarly set of war abilities with good combat workers. Scary, but less dominating in a B&S.



Miguelito (Friendly, Skillful) is Roosevelt (IND/ORG) of Egypt (Agriculture, Wheel, War Chariots, Obelisk)
Player Quality: ****
Early Strength: ***
Late Power: **
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: ***
Oof, this combo should have a warning label: Do not attempt without a high skill level. Roosevelt is Mr. GLH of course, but his other strong bonuses take time to reach and exploit, while there are nice possibilities with the UB to land great prophets for religious lines. Fortunately, Miguelito has the skills to pull this off, he’s a happy builder who can nevertheless use those war chariots early and other toys late to fight respectably. He likes wonders, so I expect him to snag quite a few despite the heavy field.



Tarkeel (Sagacious, Farseeing) is Julius Caesar (IMP/ORG) of Germany (Hunting, Mining, Risengarde, Assembly Plant)
Player Quality: ***
Early Strength: **
Late Power: ****
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: ***
Ah, CtH Germany, my old friend…I’m sorry I was mean to you. Your early Pinch Grens are indeed strong in a long-term game and on a huge map even your Assembly Plants are probably good. Tarkeel, particularly with civac on his team, is well able to advance the game to Steam Power, and his traits will certainly help him be in strong shape when he gets there. I hope not start in range of these guys for the early-Ren flowering.



General Kill Cavalry (Militaristic, Expansive) is Nebuchadnezzar (PHI/IND) of France (Agriculture, Wheel, Musketeer, Salon)
Player Quality: ***
Early Strength: *
Late Power: ***
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: **
General Kill Cavalry is a known quantity, but I have a vague impression that luck rather than particular strategy has ruled his game results…he won when he walked into an undefended capital on a duel continent, and he lost when he gets rushed. He’s not bad at all, but he’s going to be crossing his fingers early on here. Nebuchadnezzar is an interesting leader…master of the wonder-fed GPP-roulette wheel in smaller games, he’s going to struggle to get that going with this many competing for wonders. He’s still got some interest in these traits, but I think he’s going to not be as dominant here as before. France is France…it’s okay, but nothing impressive to me.


GT (Innocent, Abroad) is Kublai Khan (CRE/AGG) of Zululand (Agriculture, Hunting, Impi, Ikandha)
Player Quality: ?
Early Strength: ****
Late Power: *
Fighty-ness: ****
Econatude: **
GT is another question mark of a skillset, but I definitely get a newbie vibe. Like an overcaffeinated labradoodle, KK of Zulu is definitely prone to rush you, wise or not, but I don’t see a lot of ability here to sustain long-term gains from a big early conquest. I don’t in fact know if GT is going to try to rush, but we have to treat him with caution.



Pindicator (Spreadsheet, Cautious) is Zara Yaqob (CRE/ORG) of Sumeria (Agriculture, Wheel, Vulture, Ziggurat)
Player Quality: ****
Early Strength: ****
Late Power: ***
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: ****
Whee-oo, Pindicator is going to have some fun times here. If he cares, he’s probably one of the best micro planners on the forum, and he has a leader with great early and late game strengths, paired with the best CtH civilization by far. Vultures will be a big help in the security side of things, while Ziggurats at a cheap 40h are honestly kind of silly…the only antisynergy is that he really doesn’t need religious-line techs with Creative, but hey, it’s fine. I expect a top-line performance from Pindicator on this one, particularly with the aid of the amazing Hitru and the clever newbie Aetryn. Top seed, in my opinion.



Xist10 (Fresh, Spiky) is Wang Kon (FIN/PRO) of Rome (Fishing, Mining, Praetorian, Forum)
Player Quality: *
Early Strength: ***
Late Power: **
Fighty-ness: ***
Econatude: **
Poor Xist, I don’t think he had a very good first performance…his dotmap in 72 made me actively sad. Here he is with Rome again, this time with more protective setup and nicer economy. I think he knows now how mighty Praetorians are on defense and he’ll be spiky, but I think ultimately he will be falling behind by the midgame.


Donovan Zoi (Oldhead, Balanced) is Suryvarman II (CRE/EXP) of Inca (Mysticism, Agriculture, Quecha, Terrace)
Player Quality: ***
Early Strength: ****
Late Power: *
Fighty-ness: **
Econatude: *
DZ used to be quite respectable, let’s see if he has rust from his hiatus. This is an insanely fast combination, able to crank out 23h granaries and ignore culture…and that’s about it. Donovan is going to struggle to keep this racehorse of a combo from cratering economy by turn 65…but if he manages, he’ll be dangerous.

[Qgqqqqq]

Could you label where the games are from? I recognise some of these, but not all.

Love the analysis!