[PB73 SPOILERS] scooter's Oracle

[scooter]

Have a decision to make next turn that I've been waffling about.





I'm second-guessing my decision to replant this city in the same spot. I mentioned that I didn't want to resettle 1E on the grassland because it gives up hill defense and felt more vulnerable, even if that meant keeping the Fish orphaned.

I had a thought today though - what if I settle right where the settler is standing instead? In this world I can keep the hill defense and keep the Fish. I don't orphan any meaningful tiles either. It gives up the Corn, but Thessalonica kinda needs it full-time anyway, and a Fish offsets that just fine. I could still fort 1N for a canal. I suppose I could still settle on the grassland too and count on Walls/Castle to aid in defense, but I sort of like the hill defense.


The other benefit is it becomes really hard for him to threaten the north/west coasts while also threatening this coastline. It would take his Galleons like 4+ turns to travel from, say, the Fish to Thessalonica. This would allow me to more easily stack up defenses on the east coast and dare him to burn 3-4 turns sailing around the northern cape, which I know first-hand how tedious it is, and it's about 1 turn longer when settled this way, depending on where you count from/to. And of course I can make canals to give me a huge movement advantage, even beyond what I'll already have.

Of course, tradeoffs are 1) Fish is easily pillaged, 2) lose 2h plant which will be felt a little bit in getting the city online. Neither are especially big I don't think. Thoughts on PH vs Grass vs GH?

[scooter]

Zed, am I missing something? My understanding was that when you lose eligibility for your current civic, you're dumped into the starting/default civic for that column, with no anarchy and no delay to your next potential civic swap. Though it might look like it's happening the way you described if you take the 'mids from someone in Representation who's already teched Monarchy (especially an AI) since they might respond to being booted to Despotism by immediately revolting to HR.

Almost positive this is correct FWIW. Also on the topic - Oxy built all his wonders in one place - the capital. So if I can find a way to raze it, the game is probably over. Problem is I still do not know where it is (yet).

Just a quick comment - I didn't feel I could accept your peace offers, because round about the time I found hammers to build galleys, Oxy flooded the straight between us with triremes (which you saw later). The one galley I did build ended up never leaving Constantinople, Oxy likely would've killed it on sight if it did. So staying at war with you and hoping for the best was the only option I had - I knew there was little chance of success, but it still was the best chance I had

Very well played so far! ggs, and best of luck for the rest

Ah I wondered about that Galley build of yours. That makes sense. I didn't especially expect you to sign peace when offered, but I was watching Oxy do his Joao thing, and I was looking for a way out of our conflict because I've found so much more land out there. So I was just sort of hoping one of those turns you'd give me 10T to go back to builder mode. Obviously once I hit a point of no return, there wasn't going to be peace anymore. Once I built the army/navy, I needed to extract value from it or else I'd lose to Oxy.

Oh I missed this paragraph when I scrolled through the thread last night. Yeah there was no avoiding me sending phracts your way, and with how close the battle at Stewy ended up being, it is very possible that me losing Adrianople's production, and not being able to pre-build phracts, were the decisive factors which swung it in your favour

I'm not happy about leaving those cities open to sniping, but you were 100% correct to look for these opportunities and take them

Honestly given how brutal those Phracts were to deal with, I'm really glad I went after those two cities. I actually wonder if you would have beaten me had I not. Well, I think with Elephants and defender/production edge, I would have stopped you, but at massive game-deciding losses. Every time you got another flawless win I died a little bit inside.

[T-hawk]

One important department you've neglected - are you going to rename the captured cities?

[yuris125]

I didn't especially expect you to sign peace when offered, but I was watching Oxy do his Joao thing, and I was looking for a way out of our conflict because I've found so much more land out there. So I was just sort of hoping one of those turns you'd give me 10T to go back to builder mode. Obviously once I hit a point of no return, there wasn't going to be peace anymore. Once I built the army/navy, I needed to extract value from it or else I'd lose to Oxy.

Yeah that's the thing, I felt in a similar position - even more so with me having research visibility on you for most of the game, and seeing in real time how far I was falling behind in tech. Oxy doing Joao thing was concerning, but while we weren't in in a clear stalemate benefitting nobody, I felt compelled to keep looking for an opening to get value out of phracts

I have thoughts on replanting Constantinople, but probably shouldn't comment on that

[Zed-F]

Settling grass hill seems reasonable to me, but what happens if you build a fort 1N and he lands troops on it? Am I correct that he gains the fort defense bonus and you can’t use it as a canal while he has troops there?

[Tarkeel]

Settling grass hill seems reasonable to me, but what happens if you build a fort 1N and he lands troops on it? Am I correct that he gains the fort defense bonus and you can’t use it as a canal while he has troops there?

IIRC only the owner (and their allies, through OB) of the tile can use it's benefits, including defensive bonuses. Enemy troops will stop you from using it as a canal or airbase though.

[scooter]

One important department you've neglected - are you going to rename the captured cities?

I'm generally a fan of keeping original city names. Some folks have advocated for keeping city names intact in order to preserve game history, and I've found that to be pretty convincing. That said, I think the razed and replaced cities definitely get fresh names as those cities were in fact destroyed. There will be 3 of them this turn, so if you have on-theme name requests, you have a few hours.

Settling grass hill seems reasonable to me, but what happens if you build a fort 1N and he lands troops on it? Am I correct that he gains the fort defense bonus and you can’t use it as a canal while he has troops there?

IIRC only the owner (and their allies, through OB) of the tile can use it's benefits, including defensive bonuses. Enemy troops will stop you from using it as a canal or airbase though.

Yeah this was my understanding of how it works too.

[Zed-F]

If he doesn't get benefits from landing troops on your fort, that improves the argument for settling on the grass hill, IMHO, as it actually makes it easier rather than harder for any Zerks you have concealed on boats near Thessalonica to pass through a fort 1E of that city and participate in a counter-attack near New Constantinople (whatever it winds up being called.) We should be mindful of when Trier's culture will next expand, though, as we don't want to lose the fish to that if we plant the city on the GH.

Should the Christian missionary head to the capital in case we want a third temple there someday, now that the war is over, or do you have another use in mind? And is our prophet out of Connor likely to make a shrine, or participate in a GA?

[scooter]

City spam time.





(Don't worry, there are workers incoming, though this mostly just need a farm.)





Grass hill won out. Hooray for not pillaging cottages - I'm gonna need that commerce here soon.





I can chain irrigate that Wheat. I've realized too that one route out of my whip anger is simply hooking all the luxuries on this continent which I've unlocked by finishing this conquest. Speaking of, the jungle is busy!





Yuris building a road network to attack me is really helping here to be honest. Also helping - the fact that he did not spite delete his 4 workers. Overall though just a lot of prep-work to settle the jungle cities and get them up to speed. They will hurt slightly by not being GLH-able, but these are all part of my longterm insurance. I want to get myself into a position where even if I lose a few cities to Oxy at first I'm OK.


Landed the Music Artist. Code of Laws next as I'm gonna need some Courthouses, and then onto Astronomy.

Should the Christian missionary head to the capital in case we want a third temple there someday, now that the war is over, or do you have another use in mind? And is our prophet out of Connor likely to make a shrine, or participate in a GA?

That is exactly what it's doing actually - it just arrived in Logan this turn. And I've written off a Shrine or Monk stuff in general this game. That's a Win More. I believe I have the traits and land to instant win if I defend myself, so everything is going into Defend Myself instead of More Eco. Great People will mostly be GA here as a result.

[Zed-F]

Nice to get the artist, so GA starts when, T103 or so?

Regarding GP plans... how worthwhile is it to consider getting a GM to fund research toward Philosophy, rather than a GS to bulb it? Philosophy is only 800 beakers and it seems like over the course of the double GA, more cash would be more valuable and save more time overall. Chemistry OTOH is a big enough target that the GS seems more warranted.

Speaking of things that require a neighbor, we should be getting a few duplicate sugars online soon -- any chance of trading those for luxuries we don't have? Maybe Luddite or Cairo would like some -- albeit I'm not sure at this point how long both will be sticking around.