Psilons overrated?

[MyName]

Depending on the map, the AI ​​behaves differently. Also, depending on the map, you may have convenient and inconvenient neighbors. The enemy can be far or close. All this has a strong impact, but I have not encountered completely hopeless situations. There is always a minimal chance. Except when you don't have a good second planet. I just start a new map right away. Your task is to make decisions in accordance with all factors.

[RefSteel]

What's your benchmark for when an attack has to happen to count as "early aggression?" Like everything else in Orion, I think the viability of an early attack depends on the layout of the map and tech tree, how the other AIs expand and tech, and all the other details of a specific game. Or maybe better put, how early an attack can be viable depends on all these factors. It also depends on what you call "early" though: In my 39A game, as reported, I launched my first attack in the 2350s - but circumstances were already pretty dire when I started resorting to it, and it remains to be seen whether I can win!

[Cyneheard]

To me, it's less about a "specific date" and more about the techs. If I'm relying on all of Nuclear Engines + the T2 weapons techs (so NPG/Hyper-X/Fusion Bomb/Ion), then it's an early-game attack. "If the AI has filled out its missile base quota at this world, I have zero chance" fleets.

Two of those three things being upgraded - speed, attack weapons, bombs would be my "mid-game" line if I had to draw a sharp one. Like Fusion Engines + Neutron Blasters + Fusion Bombs are about as early as when I consider attacking established worlds in most games, so that's a mid-game fleet.

[luddite]

To me, it's less about a "specific date" and more about the techs. If I'm relying on all of Nuclear Engines + the T2 weapons techs (so NPG/Hyper-X/Fusion Bomb/Ion), then it's an early-game attack. "If the AI has filled out its missile base quota at this world, I have zero chance" fleets.

Two of those three things being upgraded - speed, attack weapons, bombs would be my "mid-game" line if I had to draw a sharp one. Like Fusion Engines + Neutron Blasters + Fusion Bombs are about as early as when I consider attacking established worlds in most games, so that's a mid-game fleet.

That's a good point. I was thinking of an early-game attack as being one with just the very starting techs, or maybe just researching a range upgrade and improved waste elimination. If you wait until you've also upgraded speed, beam weapons, and bombs, that's much later, and by that point most of the good planets have already been colonized. The AI will also have a lot more missile bases, of course.

[MyName]

Sometimes you need to use lasers and nuclear bombs (you skip colony ships in this case)

[Anskiy]

I genuinely would like examples of games where early aggression has worked out. I've never had any success with them, outside of like sometimes seizing the random poorly guarded planet close to my empire.

[MyName]

There is an example on a very convenient map (except for the neighbor Bulrathi):
https://youtu.be/wWBAV9zYeAw
You can see the basics

[luddite]

There is an example on a very convenient map (except for the neighbor Bulrathi):
https://youtu.be/wWBAV9zYeAw
You can see the basics

that does clear up some of my confusion, thanks.
So in that game the fleet is still mostly beam ships (neutron pellet gun fighters) while the bombers are just to help against missile bases. makes sense.
Also a lot of very convenient, weakly defended planets getting settled nearby early on...
The Mrrshan seem like the best race for this, with their attack bonus, initiative bonus, and not getting anything special for missles.

[MyName]

In my opinion, Alkari are much easier if you can steal or buy NPG early on, but if you face Mrrshan you will have troubles
Also in the original game, Alkari's bonus does not work against late missiles, so if i want to play as Alkari i play 1oom

[Anskiy]

Thanks for recording your run, well played. I definitely see how potent massing Mrrshan fighters can be, especially with NPGs. I'm still curious about how viable this strategy is normally, though? Like, how many maps can be feasibly won this way, in your experience?