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[PB73 SPOILERS] scooter's Oracle

(November 20th, 2023, 18:15)T-hawk Wrote: Yeah, it's not easy to find changes that came out with an expansion, as opposed to being documented in one of the specific patch logs.  I'm traveling away from my Civ computer this week, but I think the installation should have the XML files for both vanilla and BTS, so someone could look there if they want.

(Side note, I've been playing a board game Beyond the Sun lately, so the BTS acronym keeps throwing me off lol )

Confirmed. The base XML just requires Nav I, BTS requires Flanking 1 and Nav I; they also modified the XML class slightly by adding an extra pre-req field that's used for Nav II and the GG-only traits like Medic III and Morale.
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Beyond the Sun is great, we’ve gotten lots of plays out of it, and my only complaint is that if the green and blue tech trees are adjacent, and there aren’t any on-control planet bonuses, going pure tech is hard to beat.

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Well, Oxy did in fact send the house.






That is:

* 18 Knights
* 4 Muskets
* 2 Pikes
* 2 WE
* 1 Xbow
* 1 Chariot


It does not look like I could kill this when my turn comes up, though I could probably get pretty close. Of course, the only city he's actively threatening here for next turn is Connor with the 18 Knights. I could pretty easily cover that. The tricky thing is stacking up in Connor may allow him to cut off my fort access and expose my other cities. The other issue is allowing him to wait around might mean he's able to reinforce, so there's a certain allure to taking a big fight now if I can find a way to make it work. For example, I would get a GG mid-fight which could help if it spawns in a good place.


I guess I may have to make some sims this time as this is more or less the game if there's a decisive fight either way.


(FWIW he's also losing 80gpt at 0% science, though he's got enough banked for like 6-7 more turns of that. But he's gonna attack here one way or another as a result.)
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If he takes Connor, could he use your forts to get into the lake and hit the capital?
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AFAIK you can't move boats through forts in hostile territory.

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Yow, those huge score deltas for both of you.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

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Yes, El Grillo is right that you cannot do this. The only way for him to move through the forts would be to destroy my culture on the tiles. Logan and Shiv's culture prevents this.





So, there's a few things Oxy can do here, but I'm struggling to see what would work which is why I'm slightly worried I'm missing something. But this could definitely be a desperate hail mary.


1) He could slam 18 Knights into Connor next turn. However, reinforcing the city enough to prevent this is trivial. In addition, while the cultural defenses are down to 0, it's still a city on a hill behind a river. In general attacking Connor is weird because no matter what he's going to have to tank the river malus, and it doesn't really open me up quite as badly as Shiv would. Worth noting he does have more Galleons in range that might be loaded to join amphibiously, so I will have to overstock it slightly. (Ignore the "9 galleon" sign, it's outdated, but there are a few in the area for sure.)


2) He could move one tile towards Connor onto the Fort. This lets him include his one-movers in an assault on Connor. This would be annoying in that it would make it harder to reinforce the city via boat. I could pre-fort the Horse though to help deal with this - then I could still ferry units in. It also blocks his ability to fork and gives me more time to reinforce.

3) This might just be wave 1 with more coming. Notably there's no siege anywhere in this stack. However, I know some of that is because in taking the island he lost siege and/or the siege is still healing. Going by power numbers, I don't think he's got that much more in reserve.


4) He could try to run straight west towards the capital. The hills block his Knights from moving too quickly though, plus the cultural borders are untouched there, so that sounds like suicide.


5) He could pivot south towards Shiv. However, if Shiv is the target, his one-movers will take 3 more turns to be able to attack it which is 3 turns of adding Grens. Seems like a bad move for him. The Knights could get in range to hit it next turn, but again that pulls him away from the other cities.


If I had to guess he's going with some combo of 2 and 3. However, I think I have that all covered depending on how big wave 2 is. If it's small, I should be able to hold here. The big issue for him is he's got no siege whatsoever here. I've got 7 catapults, a good amount of Muskets, and a quickly increasing number of Knights in the area. Plus I can start upgrading Zerks to Grens next turn. Vodka told me I can't quite attack his stack yet, but that was mostly due to lack of hitters, not due to inability to get odds.


He does have a GG that I have not seen which concerns me. However, worth remembering MilSci unlocks the Commando promotion, so he does not have access to it.
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If we lose Connor and kill his army... we win, right? Even if we were to trade Shiv for his army, we win. Seems like we just need to make sure we don't lose a big battle and can make him pay for whatever he does.
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(November 21st, 2023, 17:27)Zed-F Wrote: If we lose Connor and kill his army... we win, right? Even if we were to trade Shiv for his army, we win. Seems like we just need to make sure we don't lose a big battle and can make him pay for whatever he does.


I think so yeah. If he loses the stack, that buys me time to get Grens and ShipOTL out, while his production will now be comparable to mine thanks to losing PS/Kremlin. And the longer he waits, the more I'll be able to produce. For example, it costs 110g to upgrade a Zerk to a Gren. I micro'd my empire to complete MilSci and still have just over 220g in the bank, so I can upgrade 2 next turn. Luddite is sitting on 230g in his treasury, so I offered him an interest-laden gold-for-gpt deal, and if he accepts I'll get 2 more upgrades next turn. It gets really hard for even Pinch Knights to punch through Grens on hills without siege, and the Muskets are all but deleted by them.


The way I lose is this stack does enough damage that I cannot keep up on production and/or his second wave is big. And it definitely might be - I really don't know.


(November 21st, 2023, 16:57)scooter Wrote: 2) He could move one tile towards Connor onto the Fort. This lets him include his one-movers in an assault on Connor. This would be annoying in that it would make it harder to reinforce the city via boat. I could pre-fort the Horse though to help deal with this - then I could still ferry units in. It also blocks his ability to fork and gives me more time to reinforce.


After puzzling over it awhile, I more or less concluded this is his play. So I played accordingly. Whether or not I have enough will more or less depend on how many reinforcements he does or doesn't have, as well as whether there's a GG trick he can pull that I'm not seeing. It's really hard to distinguish between "he has a master plan I haven't puzzled out" versus "he is throwing a hail mary" because in practice they look the same.
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Wow I didn't realise MS was so close until halfway through that post.
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