[SPOILERS] scooter Reruns Bluey

[Tarkeel]

Ok but context is required there. He had the last (12th) leader choice, so 11 were already off the board. In addition, he had picked Rome, so obviously that’s a case where Aggressive makes a bit more sense, so he mostly just took what was probably the best Aggressive leader on the board. Rome is just about the only Civ where I’d be ok with taking Aggressive as getting Praets to the 2nd promo is a serious breakpoint, and backing it up with ORG makes a ton of sense. But let’s be real, it was the icing on Rome’s cake there. There was a reason the leader was picked dead last instead of first.

Toku is PRO, not ORG, and plemo did take excellent advantage of that part with several large island cities. He also had arguably the best start on the map, with a singular weak neighbor *and* backlines so large that he didn't manage to settle them before other players had overseas colonies there.

But that's besides the point, AGG isn't supposed to be competing with the economy picks, just have some extra icing, and AGG/PRO has some eldritch rifles...

[Mjmd]

Ok but context is required there. He had the last (12th) leader choice, so 11 were already off the board. In addition, he had picked Rome, so obviously that’s a case where Aggressive makes a bit more sense, so he mostly just took what was probably the best Aggressive leader on the board. Rome is just about the only Civ where I’d be ok with taking Aggressive as getting Praets to the 2nd promo is a serious breakpoint, and backing it up with ORG makes a ton of sense. But let’s be real, it was the icing on Rome’s cake there. There was a reason the leader was picked dead last instead of first.

Toku is PRO, not ORG, and plemo did take excellent advantage of that part with several large island cities. He also had arguably the best start on the map, with a singular weak neighbor *and* backlines so large that he didn't manage to settle them before other players had overseas colonies there.

But that's besides the point, AGG isn't supposed to be competing with the economy picks, just have some extra icing, and AGG/PRO has some eldritch rifles...

Quoted for truth.

[scooter]

Ok but context is required there. He had the last (12th) leader choice, so 11 were already off the board. In addition, he had picked Rome, so obviously that’s a case where Aggressive makes a bit more sense, so he mostly just took what was probably the best Aggressive leader on the board. Rome is just about the only Civ where I’d be ok with taking Aggressive as getting Praets to the 2nd promo is a serious breakpoint, and backing it up with ORG makes a ton of sense. But let’s be real, it was the icing on Rome’s cake there. There was a reason the leader was picked dead last instead of first.

Toku is PRO, not ORG, and plemo did take excellent advantage of that part with several large island cities. He also had arguably the best start on the map, with a singular weak neighbor *and* backlines so large that he didn't manage to settle them before other players had overseas colonies there.

But that's besides the point, AGG isn't supposed to be competing with the economy picks, just have some extra icing, and AGG/PRO has some eldritch rifles...

I bet he would have won the game if he had picked a leader/civ combo that was actually good.

[Tarkeel]

Scooter, here is your starting area. The fog might be truthful, or it might lie.

[scooter]

Thanks, Tarkeel!


Water civs are extremely on the table here.


I also have been gradually developing an inclination to pick Civ first here, as the 3 traits I want most (Spi/Imp/Ind) I can be guaranteed of getting 2 of them no matter what, not to mention Phi seems really good too, and Org/Fin both seem viable.


The water trio + America + Mongolia are the civs on my mind at the moment, but there are definitely others rattling around my head such as Russia and Germany.

[Tarkeel]

To ask the obvious question: where will you settle?

[scooter]

To ask the obvious question: where will you settle?

Defog a few more tiles for me, and I'll let you know.


So, I don't know the answer yet, but I can noodle over some of the considerations here.


* Plains hill is still very good to settle on, but maybe a tiny bit less essential than Ancient.


* Given how early Bureau can be had, it's important to consider whether improving the Bureaucap is possible.


* The decision to take or not take SPI/PHI actually impact this to an extent. I think if you take SPI, you more or less need to SIP in order to not waste the free turn you get from SPI, whereas non-SPI players are likely to revolt T0, so there's no real incentive for them to settle right away.


* Literally as I'm writing this I learned that the settlers are split. I assumed they were on the same tile. Interesting. That makes planting a Bureaucap inland a little better. If for example I find other resources near the southwest plains hill (with Deer/Spice), that could be an interesting capital location. Also this is a very minor nerf to SPI for reasons I just mentioned.


* Another thing to consider - there's real advantage to having your capital be off the coast on a water map. Post-Astro there's too many shenanigans possible, especially given that Vikings being picked by someone looks extremely likely.

[scooter]

as the 3 traits I want most (Spi/Imp/Ind) I can be guaranteed of getting 2 of them no matter what

Don't worry, I've since realized this is just not true. It's true if I stretch this out to 4 traits (Spi/Imp/Ind/Phi), not 3.


Most advantageous spots in the snake seem like either first - if there's a can't miss - or 5/6 which gives me guaranteed synergy and a chance to get a glimpse at what other picks are being prioritized first. I'm not sure there is a can't miss, though.

[scooter]

Most advantageous spots in the snake seem like either first - if there's a can't miss - or 5/6 which gives me guaranteed synergy and a chance to get a glimpse at what other picks are being prioritized first. I'm not sure there is a can't miss, though.

So I gave a lot of thought to all 5 spots if you can believe that, and ultimately landed on preferring middle of the snake.


I think Vikings are probably the best choice here, but I don't really want to pick them again. So picking first and skipping Vikings is leaving a lot of expected value on the board. I considered picking second in hopes Vikings would go first, and then I would likely take Dutch, which I think would be my overall top choice, but then I risk Dutch getting first picked anyway. I strongly considered picking 3rd. The rationale would be I was guaranteed to get one of the water civ trio. I think I realized though that Portugal feels like a cut below Vikings/Dutch, and then I'd get 3rd civ and 3rd leader choice, which is meh value.


So I fell back on the boring choice of 5th/6th. I tend to think there's enough ways to play this that I'm happiest with guaranteed synergy. I still would prefer to land one of the water civs, but if they're all gone, I could pivot into something like Justinian of Mongolia, which lets me force the issue by land, where I assume we're all connected. I also just generally would like to get additional info on where others are making valuations. If IND is unpicked at 5/6 for example, I might take an IND leader.


In general though I think on the leader front it's imperative to have either SPI or PHI. I just think bulbs are too important here, and PHI buffs GPP while SPI gets you easier GPP access via Caste and/or Pacifism. At 5/6 I'll have one available, but it's possible at pick 9 or 10 the best ones are all gone. Another reason for prioritizing SPI or PHI is because early Bureau is super strong, and those traits get it the fastest. Like, I really don't want to have to settle for IMP/IND or whatever even though I'd be very happy to have one of those traits.



If these jokers leave me Vikings at 5 though....

[scooter]

Will express here that my feelings level on the Vikings thing is pretty mild. I think they're probably ban-worthy, but I also think Dutch become the consensus top choice if Vikings are banned, and I'm not sure that's really too much better? I suppose the argument against OP Dutch is that EIM power is their window to dominate (post Astro, pre Chemistry) is pretty small. That contrasts with Vikings (every ship forever benefits) and Byzantines (Phracts are OP for much longer).