[SPOILERS] swance bitten, twice shy

[pindicator]

(can you still build a lighthouse if the only water tiles in range of your city are lakes?)

Did not see an answer to this yet, so I'll give one: a city must be coastal in order to build a lighthouse. So adjacent to saltwater tiles. Just lakes don't work, sadly.

[ljubljana]

got it thank u! ok then that lake spot is even buttser than i thought then lol (no doubt intentionally )

[El Grillo]

Yeah, lighthouse lakes are decent filler tiles for no worker investment, so sometimes cities get settled such that they are still coastal, but designed to grab the most lake tiles. Doesn’t look possible here, though.

[aetryn]

Yeah, lighthouse lakes are decent filler tiles for no worker investment, so sometimes cities get settled such that they are still coastal, but designed to grab the most lake tiles.  Doesn’t look possible here, though.

Hey, I had a city in PB72 that was a commerce powerhouse for much of the game with three coastal tiles, 6 freshwater lakes, and.. well, 3 silver mines. Also was FIN and built Colossus, so yeah, those probably helped!

[Tarkeel]

also re rivers: in order to defog a route to their capital, do i also have to defog the tiles in their border along the route, up to an including the capital city center? that could be a tough ask so i kinda assume it isn't that but could be wishful thinking

Trade connections pass through borders of players you are not at war at without vision, so you (usually) only need to unfog up to their border.

The PRO bonus is +100%, maximum peaceful foreign trade bonus is +150% (+3% per turn of peace). The base value of trade routes is based on city population and distance apart, bigger being better for both. So a trade route with a distant capital after 50 turns of peace will likely outperform the internal route it supplants, even for a protective civ.

I did a full overview on trade routes at an earlier post in this thread, but the gist is that before cities start hitting sizes above 10 the only thing that matters is full 100% modifiers. You're missing the 25% for connection to capital, which will make a size 11 foreign city worth 3c (if it is atleast 11 tiles away).

can you still build a lighthouse if the only water tiles in range of your city are lakes?

Water is complicated, but no.

They could have a warrior prebuilding that will convert to an axe when the road network completes, and can then use the road network to reach the city on time.

Warriors queue-upgrade to spears. In the civopedia, if a unit will upgrade to different units, it will only queue-upgrade once all of them are unlocked and it will pick the right-most option, which is usually not the one you want it to be.

[williams482]

Now that it's turn 50, we have good reason to believe that the Ottoman borders in the fog do NOT belong to their capital. Your scout would have seen the t50 border pop, and with no religions in the game and Stonehenge built by someone else, the only way they could have accelerated their capital's border expansion would have been a monument; a very curious choice even for Charismatic. Further, CHA makes the early border pop at the second city much more likely; that city likely went down around t30-35, which gives plenty of time to knock out a 15h monument and give it 10 turns to expand.

So extrapolating from that, it looks like this copper city is a pretty reachy 3rd plant with the goal of securing copper, and bumping into the Zulus (and with your diplo messaging, ANGRY Zulus) right next to their intended spot was a nasty surprise. I'm guessing that they originally planned to settle on the coast 1N of the copper, clearly the strongest choice economically with two very good tiles in the first ring, and switched to the far safer but much weaker direct copper settle due to the danger from us. I highly doubt they have any plans to rush us right now, although I'm sure they are planning some crash military builds for defense (again, ANGRY Zulus). Discovering that we are a paper tiger is much more likely to be a temporary relief than an invitation to invade: remember, their only two-mover options are hard countered by our fancy two-mover spears, and AGG/PRO will inevitably give us promotion advantages this early. We were ambitious to think we could take them out throwing everything we had at cranking out an Impi/Chariot stack; they'd be even more ambitious to think whatever stack they can throw together in a more compressed timeframe would pull off a profitable attack.

In short: breathe. We're AGG/PRO Zulu, we're going to have PRO archers in play very soon, and they're probably more scared of us than we are of them.

EDIT: ah, nuts. Our capital didn't pop either, I guess that actually happens t51? Anywho, what I just said holds true if those borders hold steady next turn.

[Tarkeel]

EDIT: ah, nuts. Our capital didn't pop either, I guess that actually happens t51? Anywho, what I just said holds true if those borders hold steady next turn.

Turns spent in anarchy (for say, converting to slavery) do not generate anything, not even culture.

[williams482]

EDIT: ah, nuts. Our capital didn't pop either, I guess that actually happens t51? Anywho, what I just said holds true if those borders hold steady next turn.

Turns spent in anarchy (for say, converting to slavery) do not generate anything, not even culture.

:facepalm:

[ljubljana]

alright friends, in response to @williams's urgings i have Chilled. or maybe it's just too early in the morning (and i'm too much of an insomniac) for me too be capable of feeling NOT chilled. i should play all my turns at 6 AM.....

Turn 51 - Zululand



do you guys see a monument in here? i'm not really sure what i'm supposed to be looking for, to be honest.... i would assume something pointy, yes? this is the turn it would have appeared if they chopped into it, i think; if they have not done so, i will let our pair of chops hit Kirishima's monument next turn. it's not a unit ofc but it is defense bonus, control over critical border tiles, and will pay for itself in 10t by bringing more chops in range



it IS their capital IM SORRY GINGAC i have misjudged youuuu

so kirishima and ankyra are both 7 tiles from their respective capitals and the line of tiles we are culturally fighting over are the ones equidistant from our starts



size 6 too so watch carefully for a settler whip in the next.... well, probably the next 1 turns lol



mita monument is about to finish via chop-overflow from the chariot. next up i THINK i will have it build another unit (archer? chariot? with only 5t on the peace treaty probably chariot is better) and then whip at size 3 and overflow into worker. takakeisho is putting one safety turn into chariot in case something scary happens in the west, but only because it doesn't delay the worker (i think but i just realized i forgot to account for the lower chop yield in the third ring, which could be a worker turn-costing screwup D: ). not sure if we want 2 workers or 3 ready to road before pushing south - i know i'll catch some heat for this but i'm leaning 3



you guys remember asashoryu, former yokozuna of "beat up a yakuza member outside a nightclub" fame? his nephew is a (VERY recently promoted) ozeki now, who scowls at everyone constantly just like his uncle and regularly tops "most attractive rikishi" polls with tobizaru. he also does things like this:



The Golden Prince

somehow we are still leading the neighborhood in expansion, even over greenline of IMP of sumeria...? it's not gonna last though, we will certainly not be even locally first to 5 cities as the worker situation is getting bad again, we have a long, stupid road through the hills to build, and need military for at least gingac, AND granaries are about to come online and require even more urgent hammer-dumping. ITS FINE THO we got our four reachy strong food sites and all four of them are strong enough to contribute to catching up on settlers when the time comes

new city's build order is monument literally asap, working the forest for a few extra hammers with a chop coming in over accelerating the cow pasture, then undetermined other things lol

extremely cheatily cherry-picked demos, if we worked the cow in new city:




btw, we will need naming schemes for both chariots and archers in the next few turns - soliciting suggestions

[williams482]

The monument looks like a grey statue of a person, very similar to it's icon. That city definitely does not have one in it right now, so they must have chopped into something else. Probably an axe.

So, it is their capital! That copper city is definitely less of a reach, and seems like a very reasonable third city site for them to have gone after. I'm still pretty firm in my thinking that the various log in/out events and delayed turnplaying is "oh SHIT, we neighbor AGG/PRO Zulu" with a touch of "welp, we definitely have to settle on the copper now", not "Oh boy! How exactly do we want to rush AGG/PRO Zulu?"