[No players] Big epic lurking - PB74

[Mjmd]

Ya if no one interferes I think they could eventually. But yes Piccadilly has a high chance of eventually intervening, but I would wager he wants Plemo weakened first / ability to do so while holding off Gav. Really wish he would report. But ya all 3 of them will probably eventually be absorbed; its just the timeline now. Unless Piccadilly interferes real soon and then maybe Plemo could make a comeback, but again find that doubtful.

I think the main thing with the Tarkeel expedition is that Plemo sacrificed a little, but he didn't really gain anything other than a game long enemy. He needed to go harder to actually be able to hold something or not at all.

[xist10]

I wrote about the counter invasion ~ 3 turns ago.
The army loss there enabled the (impressive) comeback fro SD after his army wipe in plemos land.

I'm not sure if the first attack (and the burned capital) was really wrong. It crippled the strong neighbour, who had a succesful rush.
Yes, it gained only long term enemy, but if Plemo had a not hostile second neighbour, I think he had conquered germany by now.

And I'm not sure what hostiles moves Plemo made towards SD.

[Thoth]

Commodore seems focused on peaceful expansion via Astro islands and is unlikely to intervene. A stalemated war between Plemo, Tarkeel, and Superdeath is perfect for Commodore as it ties up and weakens 3 opponents without any resources on his part. He'll need to invest heavily in defending his overseas possessions both in terms of navy and in garrison troops. Others won't be far behind in getting to Astronomy.

[Dreylin]

(Yes, I'm getting ready for some spoils, in case it's Picca that gets raided..)

Does GT somehow not know that plemo is in a hot war with 2 other players!?

[xist10]

I think so ?
GT knows only Plemo and SD, the second player is unknwon.
No city known to GT is fallen and a war declaration can be forgotten ?
And GT is unimportant, he (will have) killed scooter and was able to defend my rush.
GT will be maybe important again as a third player in a Gav/Picca war.

Edit: I remain at my opionion from the PB76.
This was a mistake from Plemo, the players should decide. It's a important mistake, I know, but I tended a bit to no reload.
Player seems to be in favor for the reload - and scooter should had no fights. Still, only Gav and Tarkeel in the moment ?

[Qgqqqqq]

To be frank, I don't think lurkers should have a role in deciding this one. He's been open about what the mistake was, and the context doesn't really colour it in a meaningful way. Either micro decisions (albeit at a significant scale) can be rerolled, in which case the players can decide that, or they shouldn't, in which case the flow on consequences are irrelevant.

Personally I'd lean towards no partly because the overall pace of the game is getting harmed by this. But that's not an especially rational motivation.

[Mjmd]

I maintain my position from PB76 that players shouldn't really decide. If they state they are for it that is a point in favor (edit specifically ones negatively affected), but its pretty easy for them to be biased. I'm going to do the same thing as PB76. Call for a vote so we can get this thing rolling.

For:
Dreylin

Against:
Xist
Yuri
Nauf
CFCJester
Mousy

[Dreylin]

I ... don't know.

I mean Krill's comments on the PB76 fix still stand - would rather results were based on play not misclick - and plemo has clearly prepped based on completing this turn. But then also how much to we weigh against the the surrounding context; he spent 1.5hrs on the last turn, then logged in later for a couple of minutes - which presumably was when it happened - should we take the context into play as Commodore suggests, or does that just undermine the game interest for plemo and lead to a slow death? We know he just got Iron back from GT in trade, so presumably many of those whips would have happened anyway and mispositioned units happen all the time, but did he whip a round of Spears to upgrade to Pikes?

I'm very unsure, but maybe lean towards the reload.

[xist10]

I'm very against a denied reload because Commodore has problems with the timer.
And I think, if we as lurker should decide this, no reload - no bug, instead a player mistake. Player mistakes are something else.
Option A) Play with a strict timer - I would recommend ~48h.
Or Option B) Accepts that this is a still a big game - there is 3-way turnsplit ?! - and take the pause.

[yuris125]

I was against a reload in 76, so obviously against a reload here. In general, I think things like remembering to change worked tiles, adjust taxes, or switch civics is an essential part of the game, same as moving units. We wouldn't reload for someone who forgets to move a unit, would we? That's before we even start considering the particulars here, i.e. relatively late game, generally slow turn pace, and sim turns allowing players to make adjustments like this even after they finish the turn, all the way until it rolls