I think your logic on gambling for that southern wheat/horse/cow site is solid. The Copper/FP spot should probably wait, but it is at least on a hill and has no second ring overlap with Greenline's city. And obviously we should scout those two fogged tiles, because spotting a resource on one of them could make the site that much more worthwhile.
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[SPOILERS] swance bitten, twice shy
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Metal for metal is generally by convention a request for aid in war, but I'm not sure what it applies to here. Best I can guess is maybe he means it as a "let's not fight, let's conquer the other direction around the ring" sort of like when Ginger and us traded dueling "war the other direction" requests. Generally you see metal for metal more in the context of a specific war declaration. Like if Ginger sent us "War with Dreylin and Copper for Copper" that would be a request for us to help him fight Dreylin, and maybe permission to take any cities on Dreylin's border with us, if any such cities exist.
I'd echo the peace signal but possibly not the metal for metal until we have a better idea how he intends it. I'm also on board with taking the spot now, especially if the border with GT is settling down. I'm a bit worried about Ginger being out of room to expand, but he'll probably be in consolidation for another 10 turns or so. The worry is that he beelines military tech and goes after us before we're ready. We're still in the "Horse Archers are kinda scary" phase of the game, but fortunately with a lot of Impi around we probably won't be an attractive target. 
hmmm... GT's peace signal was an echo of one we sent them two turns ago.... i think maybe it would be annoying to echo it again, but i can be convinced. and yeahhhh i'm pretty much going to spam impi for the vast majority of our military builds until we're out of the horse archer window, and maybe even somewhat after that as they can MAYbe help deter knights as well
turn 92 thought about sleeping first but naaaah  well, shit. quechuas vs agg praetorians.... and you can see they lost another city to superdeath this turn. so poor rickety is not going to even live to make contact with the rest of the world, and we are about to be possibly the lone witnesses to what i gather to be one of the most brutal things that has happened in one of these games.... and in the same turn, something i was NOT expecting  wait, wtf..... gavagai is ALSO horribly stunted? what the hell happened over here? peace treaty with superdeath seems like it could be an answer, except, no, they don't neighbor each other so how could SD have done this... and if it were a long, mutually destructive war between gav and mjmd that ruined both their games, it doesn't really make sense for it to end in an mjmd city burning (or being captured?) and THEN signing peace? unfortunately i'm starting to realize that one of my old civ6 habits, that of letting conquered cities keep my opponents' naming scheme as a tribute to them, may have to die here as in renaming conquered cities both SD and possibly gav are denying me important intel here well either way, this is.... i don't even know wtf this is. the dream scenario for my bff superdeath, that's for sure! yeahhhhh go SD eat the world!!! but please in doing so manage to also just barely lose to zululand in the end. really it's IMP greenline and naufragar who you'd expect to profit most from this level of chaos, but it looks like a LARGE area of land in the southwest might remain unoccupied and undeveloped for, like, maybe the whole game..... i wonder if there isn't a way for us to take advantage too, we technically were probably going to eventually neighbor mjmd if we all tesselated the map into our respective voronoi cells as seems to be convention. so there are areas like this  that once looked to be over the line into mjmd territory that we could conceivably contest if we step on it a little speaking of which general area  greenline has apparently decided to hostilely scout us with a vulture :< in what looks likely to be a prelude to settling up here. pleeeease tell me the chariot +100% vs axes applies to these as well speaking of which aetryn, you are a prophet as it appears someone picked up HBR this turn.... not sure who it is but we do have graphs on one person who is displaying a power spike  niiice. ok, more impis for the south then, as if that was ever in question. and yeah, they might be making these moves juuust in time to forestall our otherwise pretty plausible attempt to establish a border here  we could really use a dedicated scout for this greenline border now, buuuut we do not have one and it looks like we won't for a minute. at least daieisho's ready to whip its granary next turn, which we can conceivably follow up with a diversion to impi production as needed i cant believe we have pIG!! right as the granary is coming online too. ofc we will need a library pdq to lock this in or there may be a window in which GT takes it back w third ring culture from lalibela... but abi's on track to be something of an economic powerhouse so we honestly want that anyways  hey drey..... do you have more than one gem?? we could be in for quite a pickup if so as we can actually hook up a THIRD ivory in just a few turns. i am willing to send them our gold for these as well as we have a backup of that too that can come online soon  settled on this for greenline flag-showing purposes. we can settle horsecow in just 2 turns if we go for the western spot, or 3 if we want to move 1E to trade the floodplains for a line of hills and for locking greenline out of trying to steal back the wheat by settling first-ring to it with CRE.... idk if that's a reasonable thing to be scared of as you'd imagine a rational actor would realize it's tantamount to war, but with greenline something of an unknown quantity i do kiiiind of consider it a weakness in the border for such a thing to even be possible  ok note to self: watch this space to see if gingac tries to fight for this research visibility.... note to self two: check on that gems deal with dreylin next turn to see if it went through!!!  sigh. one more thing to note about this: we played after GT last turn, and are now playing before them as we finish pasturing the pigs. GT can now only punish us and kill our workers if they double-move us.... but i'm now realizing that, if they were planning to declare war in the coming turns, it is possible that by pasturing the pigs this turn before they could play, WE have effectively double-moved THEM, since they have been denied a chance to use all six of their units to prevent us from connecting the pigs. if that was illegal either as written or in spirit i am sorry and will consent to a reload request if GT makes one hmmmm.... similarly, i'd rate the chances that greenline's scouting units indicate a settler race as fairly high. i wonder if we should be asking for a peacetime turn split? that's probably too much though right?
Turn 93 - Zululand
open the turn to nauf reoffering rice for wheat - nice, i'll take it! dreylin did not accept our gem/ivory swap but it's possible they haven't seen it yet. we have extras of both ivory AND gold so actually even if they have just the one we still have a lever by which we can offer them a win-win deal for it eventually  come, sweet Death ollantaytambo has just one quechua in it after that axe just effortlessly blew down the other defender. poor rickety looks quite unlikely to make it to turn 100 tumbling down tumbling down tumbling down ok, HERE is an example of granary micro wanting us to switch off food:  compare working the wheat or copper this turn over the next 4 turns, assuming we swap back to the wheat next turn in the latter case wheat copper 93| 15/22 food 11/22 food, 5 hammers 94| 19/22 food 15/22 food, 5 hammers 95| s2, 8/24 food 19/22 food, 5 hammers 96| 10/24 food, 5 hammers s2, 12/24 food, 5 hammers so it seems strictly better, in terms of food, to NOT work the floodplains this turn.... counterintuitive but i'm not going to look 2 marginal food surplus in the mouth (unless you guys say my math is wrong in which case i will straight-up do dentistry on it) dreylin is "trying to contact me", which could be in response to our gem/gold proposal.... but i guess in practice the game locks you out of offering deals when the other player is online, unless you want to go through real-time negotiation hell? i will log off for a few mins and go jam another balatro run in case that was what they were trying for. would be quite nice to get at their gems just by connecting a third ivory instead of having to wait for the second gold to come online ................................ aaaand we're back. dreylin did not propose a deal, i guess i'll wait for the second gold i GUESSS  greenline is scouting the hell out of us. but.... both the settler and worker parties are just ONE tile out of reach of there they can currently see. they may still have scouted this last turn but there is. wildly enough, apparently some chance they still don't know we're in a race here. still don't know whether i'm going to go for the western or eastern site down here.... i'll impulsively decide tomorrow most likely  ok, we have now whipped (or are about to whip) a full wave of settlers for post-currency (or, yes, in one case pre-currency). now i THINK we need to save some pop for a minute to enable whipping a ton of workers for the MoM try. i am seeing 4 cities that can easily whip a worker, so we will need to get 6 either from our workforce in the area or some other expedient like overflowing into and then slow-building one in Takakeisho or Hoshoryu (while we wait for whip anger to dissipate) i'm thinking that once we're on less-tightly timed builds, we should stick 4 hammers into an impi in every city that can reasonably do so.... if someone DOES attack us with HA, double-whipping impi in every damn city and overflowing into a second should be a "fun surprise"  ohhhh butts. lalibela is further on culture than i thought (with the ethiopia UB no less) so.... as triumphant as this pigs steal was, weeeee are going to lose them very soon to their stupid third-ring borders until we hit third-ring ourself. and how long will that take? ....please don't ask me that question i will chop and whip the library as soon as possible (probably 3t from now) and uh.... do our insufficient best, i guess. well, guess it's time to downregulate how many cottages we expect to grow over here (which fits with Abi as a heroic epic candidate anyways, i suppose). yeah we were supposed to do library before granary here, i'm stupid as hell lol
 wow!!! oh shit guys, emergency need of lurker ruling we moved AFTER greenline last turn, and are moving BEFORE them this turn, and have just now discovered, mid-turn, that we are in a settler race. is the correct process now to immediately pause my turn until greenline has moved, and possibly send them a PM asking for an official turnsplit? what about the fact that THEY may not know we are in a settler race (depending on their movements they may not have scouted our settler yet)? it looks like they are heading west with the settler now, but if they learn via PM that they are in a race, they might change their mind and found NE of the settler's current position to lock us out of our intended spot.... (although if they do that i think i can burn the city this turn without fear of retaliation, and i may well do so.....)
This is one of those grey areas that isn't well defined. I think if you were to play out your turn then nobody would have any problem with it because you didn't know you were in a settler race until you started playing.
If you want to be without reproach, I would wait for greenline to play and then finish your turn after him. I would not PM him. This is all just my opinion, though
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
It also causes problems to split your turn in two around another person, especially if they can see you and make moves assuming that, because you logged in and moved stuff, you probably just forgot to end turn. Is this even possibly competitive if they ARE racing us for a spot? It looks like your settler is too far away that if they take a spot that locks us out we have no chance of actually getting there in time, at least if it's the settler whose portrait is pointing offscreen If it's not ACTUALLY a race (i.e we can't prevent them from locking us out, and we depend on them settling somewhere else to allow our settle to go forward) I would just finish your turn now to avoid the confusion of a split turn. If instead the settler is under the Impi and could settle this turn, it's more complicated. You voted at the very beginning of this Pitboss that the turn rules would be "current turn order when it's realized it's a race". That would imply that, since you just realized it this turn, that you should go ahead and move first since you were moving first this turn and this was the turn when you realized there was a race. If the vote had been "lurker coinflip when realized", then we'd probably need to do something else. But since it was for current when realized, I think you're probably okay to just settle it despite moving last in the previous turn.
As an aside, "Current when realized" will tend to reward the player who moves first in the turn when it's realized (whether they, or the person moving after them is the one doing the realizing). Maybe this is okay (encourage people to play their turns promptly?) but it is a bias on that choice. Voting spreadsheet, for reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...edit#gid=0
still thinking about what to do, but as to the factual questions:
settler is NE of Tobizaru under a chariot, but the impi has two workers under it, so by roading on the pinned tile, we could settle this turn if we move first. or, if they move first, they can move 1NW and settle to lock us out of the pinned spot. so it is a true race, though if they did lock us out of our preferred spot, we could either settle 1E of the pin instead or have a very good shot to raze the city on our turn aaaaand as i'm typing this up i see now that while i was worrying about this, greenline has played their turn :| new situation is this: 
fhsasohfuoeiw turn
 ginger wants to be friends, maybe in response to our tech vis-denying EP spending. hmm. this is potentially a close call right.... i do not particularly want them to tech away in peace to all the upcoming first-to bonuses without even worrying about military. however, we aren't really in position to fight them yet, and i think the longer we can postpone the increasingly inevitable-looking conflict w them, the better we are likely to do - the main edge we can expect to have over them in the midgame is our higher ceiling on city count, and of course that will take some time to manifest. i decided that i will indeed send corn/corn back, this time.  here is something i haven't seen before.... why do we still have this tile if it's majority ethiopian? do adding culture to a tile and recalculating who owns that tile NOT actually happen at the same time....?  we have come upon some city ruins.... i suppose this is most likely the Mjmd seventh city that got razed, although why gav bothered to attack a target so clearly in Mjmd's sphere of influence and which they apparently did not intend to hold, i am not too sure. similarly  ollantaytambo, which haruko just visited last turn, is gone. since SD did not get an 11th city i imagine they razed it. cuzco is not long for this earth either, there is a praetorian NE of it and i am not sure how many quechuas it takes to have favorable odds against one of those. it is looking like rickety drew not only the worst imaginable neighbors but a pretty boxed-in corner start as well, the inverse of ginger's on our end of the continent. rough.....  damn, mjmd is, uh, pretty all-in on this "wonders or die" gameplan.... note also the whipped granary in WMH, and the fact that i have decided that the best use for kirishima's chops, now that there is no wonder to shoot for, is just to rush the market as soon as currency comes in so the city can actually grow onto its enormous number of grass river cottages aaaand this is the point where i realized we were in a race with greenline, so turn paused here... ---------------------------- ok turn part 2  settled on this re greenline, to create a border that is a) more airtight (gains control all the way to the mountains, so no chance to lose our wheat to an aggressive plant from them) and b) less likely to actively antagonize them. we do lose a chop and the floodplains that we likely could not steal from greenline's new city long-term anyways (they are CRE), but we gain the wheat in first-ring which might make up for it in terms of snowball as we can now go walls -> granary first without waiting on the monument. also worth considering: while this city can be one-turned by 2-movers, it does have one nice defensive property compared to the spot 1W, which is that it and tobizaru CAN'T be forked by 2-movers, so we can just pile all our impis in one or the other and shift as needed thought hard about moving a chariot on the desert S-SW of the horses, to force greenline to defend their settler with more than just a vulture.... but that is actually a huge blunder. the two workers could road the plains E of greenline's new city, then the settler can found, to let the vulture kill our chariot on offense... moreover they would pretty much HAVE to do so if they want to found the city next turn since no other units can reach it on defense. sooooo if i had moved there i think it likely would have started a war, so not worth it just to make them sweat a little new city will chop walls immediately (on the same turn we get stone hooked up), then probably overflow into the granary, then culture stuff to eventually get the cows  not quite sure what we're meant to be doing with this settler from kotozakura now.... the filler between kirishima and mitakeumi looks super non-urgent, gold + FP spot and silver spot in the SW both have settlers already allocated to it, and the FP spot at the greenline border is now taken. i guess we could try to claim this wheat on the dreylin border  but any city down there would be pretty horrendous... we don't really need the extra silk either and it would be a nightmare to both hook up and hold, and honestly might be too likely to cause conflict w dreylin to be worth it. not to mention the huge no man's land between us and dreylin right now is VERY convenient defensively and i don't really wanna attempt to reach all the way to the far side of it for a city this crappy. other option is this  miserable garbage spot, but it does at least claim a good amount of serfdom farms, and locks out GT trying to settle E of the copper to take the pigs as i fear they otherwise might (they are otherwise pretty much already out of other spots with actual food...) |
