You rushed the Chicken Pizza? I can understand grabbing it but rushing it???? I haven't been keeping up with the other threads that well (for like a month or so) but I'm sure half the lurk thread is calling you out for that.
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[SPOILERS] swance bitten, twice shy
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hahaha probably, if so i would very likely deserve it
 the reason is happened was basically this - i tried to rush MoM and missed, and also tried to get Confucianism and missed, and ended up getting CoL with a bunch of pre-chopped forests sitting around with no especially compelling ways to get value out of them. and, well..... looking around, our geopolitical situation looks very fragile - GT needs to kill someone VERY soon to have a chance to win, and i don't think he CAN kill nauf as superdeath just killed someone else and is probably not in a position to help. and we on the other hand are leaders in city count but somewhat overextended, so GT probably thinks we both could stand to be taken down a peg and that they have some chance of actually doing so with ginger's help. so it seemed worth doing in part to make that option less attractive also, looking further down the road, in 30-40 turns i think WE want to be launching an offensive war against most likely GT with knights, muskets, and the aid of naufragar. but while we might have a tech edge against GT at that point, we will NOT have one against ginger, so we can only really do that if we are confident we can hold off them piling on at the same time with what will probably be their own knight stack. that means we need to be able to defend against knights with longbows, impi, and catapults (could get engineering but i think that delays our guilds push too much). i think the CI defense bonus would be pretty helpful in doing that, as right now impis on defense are close to getting odds against attacking knights on a 1-for-1 basis but not quite there, and CI takes us over that line vs C2 knights (not quite vs shock knights but those do worse against longbows). moreover, i do not think ginger's knights could do much besides attack into our defenses in a situation like that, as if they stop to bombard, we can smash them with catapults and then probably beat them with impis on offense. anyways, that's the quote unquote logic but i'm also famously delulu about this kind of sunk cost fallacy, static defense apologist thing so getting called out for that is probably MORE than appropriate (March 27th, 2024, 18:59)ljubljana Wrote: ehehehe.... you might have even seen it in an old civ6 pbem.... No, there was definitely a primarily Civ IV player who made all his complaints about Civ VI his naming theme. Drat. I'll have to find it.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about. (March 27th, 2024, 16:50)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Greenline's naming theme of busted Civ VI mechanics is delightful. I think I've seen it before, too, in an earlier IV Pitboss, but regrettably I can't recall either the Pitboss or the player. Funny, though. Alhazard, Pitboss 44.
Participated in: Pitboss 40 (lurked by Mr. Cairo), Pitboss 45 (lurked by Charriu and chumchu), Pitboss 63 (replaced Mr. Cairo), Pitboss 66, Pitboss 69, Pitboss 74
Participating in: Pitboss 78 (lurked by GT), Pitboss 79 (lurking giraflorens) Criticism welcome!  (March 27th, 2024, 18:59)ljubljana Wrote: ehehehe.... you might have even seen it in an old civ6 pbem.... I don't like to go much below that. You just picked up Currency, already have some maintenance reduction and economic conditions should be relatively favorable, I'd be trying to get toward 50% breakeven around now. I think I'd probably get up a few Courthouses and try to at least get back to 40% before taking much more land. If marginal spots on borders that might tick people off go, I'd just let them go at this point. There's a lot of important tech to get in this era and if we continue to fall further behind Ginger and other economy leaders (Nauf? Superdeath? Dreylin?, heck even GT may have better tech rate since he's been squeezed into fewer cities) it's not going to matter if we've got a couple more production queues. Internal fillers should be evaluated one by one for what they do and most importantly, whether we actually have worker labor standing by to give them improved tiles. Cities working unimproved tiles are mostly a net negative at this point, even with trade routes supposedly covering the displayed maintenance cost of the city. You also have to keep in mind the cost of the population (shown nowhere on the city pane but shows up in the Economic Advisor for all cities together as Civics cost) and the cost of the units needed to garrison and defend it. My impression right now is that our CORE cities are suffering for shortage of improvements, many of our maturing but still green cities are also in that position, and some of our new cities may have no improvements at all. I'd rectify those before splitting off workers to handle internal fillers, unless there is some really compelling reason (i.e. really good tiles that can't be worked from an existing city). Another thing to keep in mind is that the happy cap is due to go up soon as Markets come in, silks and duplicates of resources we traded away get hooked up, we hit Golden Age and swap into Hereditary Rule, etc. Sure, some of our cities don't have enough food to go very high anyway - when those have all their improvements, THAT's the time to start settling internal fillers. And in many cases, we may be better served taking, say, good land from GT over taking marginal internal cities. Of course, it's still too early to commit to attacking GT over Ginger. But if that's our likely strategic objective, I'd definitely let the border city with Ginger go regardless of economy. Would you rather have a few plains river tiles that cost a lot of troops to keep safe, or would you rather take GT's core cities that have river grassland? And these can change depending on what happens later in the game. Getting a Shrine and monk wonders changes the calculus on internal fillers a lot because they produce a bunch just by existing. But those seem unlikely now. Corporations can do the same, and those seem less unlikely, but very very far off. Biology will make a huge difference if we get there. I had marginal PB72 sites I was settling throughout the game as each wave of cities matured out of leech status, including a few post-Biology. You don't absolutely need to settle marginal sites by some cutoff date for them to matter. (March 27th, 2024, 23:55)aetryn Wrote: There's a lot of important tech to get in this era and if we continue to fall further behind Ginger and other economy leaders (Nauf? Superdeath? Dreylin?, heck even GT may have better tech rate since he's been squeezed into fewer cities) it's not going to matter if we've got a couple more production queues. First of all, in war are more production queues are the most important thing. There a few units, which you can't kill with enough catapults. Okay, praetorians are better than most for that, but still if your are only 1 (1,5) generations behind, you can "defend" against most stacks, if productions is equal (or even greater). And your are still in a position in game, where a great part of production should come from slavery, which means, more citys = more prod. Later when the units cost more then 60-70 prod, this is subject to changes, but still... Cost of population is interesting. You see part of it - a bigger city cost more than a smaller. But your right, civic maintance is another point. But you don't see decreased cost for military units for more pop either. Okay, this is not really relevant in most times. (Same applies to unit cost (in comparison to Civ5 and Civ6)). Additional point of cost is inflaion, with increases all other cost (in a seperat point). But there is no real point to settle city without improved tiles (or (FIN) coast). (March 27th, 2024, 21:05)Magic Science Wrote:(March 27th, 2024, 16:50)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Greenline's naming theme of busted Civ VI mechanics is delightful. I think I've seen it before, too, in an earlier IV Pitboss, but regrettably I can't recall either the Pitboss or the player. Funny, though. Nailed it! I knew I'd seen it somewhere.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about. 
turn 106 - zulus
F1, prior to any whipping or production adjustments  and F2:  AGG is up to a full 11 GPT in savings even this early, which, combined with the cheap ikhandas, is really putting in work towards keeping us afloat  someone has made it to construction this turn, so if it turns out to be one of our neighbors there is some urgency in following them, perhaps enough that we should contemplate returning to wealth builds soon. but construction produces only a very generic-looking 4k milpower spike, so i don't think there is an obvious way to tell if that's the case.... unLESS.... would we be able to use roads in their territory to cross their rivers if they have researched construction tech? well, i tried it with GT and we still can't do it. annoyingly ginger has no roads across rivers within a 1t march of our scout, but we do eventually find one just out of reach. so is this to be believed?  if it is accurate, and if it's true that if they had construction we'd be able to cross in one turn, then i think this is confirmation that ginger is not the offending party either...? also curious when we can expect bridge building to apply to roads in neutral territory, eg  oh fuck  moved my impi to cover the worker before realizing we have a problem here.... ginger could DoW to break open borders, which depending on the teleport rules could make their chariot go 2NE of kirishima, then they could attack chariot -> axe to have a chance to raze the city.... would that be considered a "teleoprt trick" and therefore banned under "don't be a dick" in your estimation? if not, they would be attacking at 8 str vs a fully fortified C1 axe across a river into 65% defenses = 5 * 2.25 = 11.25 str, which vodka says gives them only 8% odds to win.... but maybe we still want to whip an in-progress impi here just to make that 0%. i really don't want to do that though as this city is the most in need of growing tall of any in our empire due to the need to start working on the 200 point GP.... update on the dreylin border site:  well, it's still unclaimed, and that wheat is actually closer to our capital (8 tiles) than theirs (10 tiles) which might explain some of their hesitancy in claiming it. the extra silk is 11 tiles from both so i think it's not too aggressive of us to claim it, even though it is on their side of the mountain + lake border that seems to make the "natural" division between our lands.... the site is otherwise pretty crappy but like, wheat is wheat...are yall sureeee we want to just tamely concede it to them? i am not sure myself and might at least send a few troops up here to try to effect some kind of claim to it, if not actually whip a settler in mitakeumi for it.... i would feel significantly more aggro about trying for it but if we settle at the pinned spot, they will likely settle 2E-1SE and rush culture, which races us for the silk and, more critically, will combine w third-ring culture from their other city to eventually steal the wheat as well. so maybe this spot isn't actually on the menu, and the one that is (1NE, first-ring from the wheat) is both harder to defend and less productive.... ugh. well i did decide that whipping a settler in mitakeumi is probably better than doing so in size-4 abi for the northern fish spot (better to take a city off growth for 2 turns for a triple-whip than 5 turns for a double-whip...) so i will swap to that at least
Yeah, we need to grow our commerce and trim our expenses a bit. There's quite a number of cities in that list costing 4-5 commerce just in city maintenance that are producing <10 commerce and no significant hammers either. You can get the total cost of the city by looking at your Civics cost (38), your total pop (48), and dividing those two (comes out to be about 0.8/person). When you add that in, even a city like Hoshoryu that looks okay is really producing 11 commerce at a cost of 7.2 commerce, which is not underwater, but it's not exactly great for our 5th city founded. There's a lot of similar cities that are very marginal or nearly break-even.
Also no markets seem to have been built yet? I see a few are close, but like, that's what I would have been whipping over settlers. (Courthouses too). Tobizaru also seems to be lacking a Library and it's our second-highest commerce city. I strongly suspect we're also going to need to look hard at Serfdom since we're going to have to run tons of farms. It's bad to lose whipping, but a lot of cities won't be able to whip much anyway with terrible food supplies. For Construction, you don't need to have a scout around. Bridges will show in any land you've seen, whether or not you have current vision on it. There are times when a player has somehow built only diagonal roads across rivers where you can't tell, but it's pretty rare if you have vision of most of their territory. |
