Remnants of the Precursors - Initial thoughts

[rgp151]

A few other observations from some playthroughs.

I'm currently playing a Small map, Hard difficulty with Base AI. I don't know what the different AI options do. I'm playing Psilon (yeah, sorry I just stick to the original names )

I've had the best success with Psilons for sure. In MoO, as I've said in other threads, I think Klackons are for sure better than Psilons on Impossible. But I haven't been able to get them working as well in this game so far.

There seems to be more runaway population situations, on both sides. In several games some AI opponent has gotten a massive planet/population lead, and then in a few games I end up being the one with a massive planet/population lead, to the point that I am able to win by vote before much has even happened. There seems to be less overall interaction with the AIs, maybe this is due to the Base option? I mean diplomatically they interact more, but seem way less aggressive militarily.

I think with the larger planet numbers, there is just so much room for peaceful expansion for one thing.

I had a situation where I was getting attacked by both the Amoeba and the Space Crystal at the same time, which was not nice. (Not the same planet, different planets). Seems like you can't tell when the monsters are going to hit your planet, you just know which planet they are targeting. The Space Crystal is no joke and very difficult to defeat.

For all of the added info, I seem to have a harder time really knowing what's going on and how to manage my planets.

I still don't really know what the right planetary defenses are, because I've hardly been attacked.

It seems that any time I conquer a planet all of the factories are destroyed, but I'm not sure why. Prior to invasion I know they have factories.

I don't see "Tech Level" anywhere. How do you know what computer level you are at v your opponents?

It's nice that your ground bonus is shown in the Race screen, but would also be nice if it was shown when you are invading.

Overall, a lot to like, but there are a few little nuances that don't seem quite right.

[rgp151]

I'm in a game currently where somehow the Klackons have the lowest number of planets (by far) the lowest population (by far) the lowest production, and yet they are far and away teh leaders in technology. I can't figure this out. They are ahead of the Psilons, who are second behind me in planets, population and production.

[RefSteel]

More details about these examples would help a lot; it depends on how early or late in the game it is and what led up to that point (including how long each aspect has been the case). There could be some kind of bug involved (heh - obviously there are millions of virtual bugs involved, but you know what I mean) but any given aspect of any given gamestate could have a huge number of explanations in a vacuum.

[rgp151]

I'd add a screen shot, but the forum won't let me and I don't feel like going through the trouble to use some alternative.

This is using the Modnar Ai on Normal difficulty with 5 opponents, Small map, me being Silicoids.

Anyway, as of 12539 by the stats:

Tech:
Kholdan 23
Human 18
Me 18
...
Mentaran 13

Pop:
Me 34
Human 17
Mentaran 17
...
Kholdan 9.1

Production:
Me 30
Mentaran 20
Human 16
...
Kholdan 12

So the Psilons had the second highest population and production, but the lowest tech, and the Klackons had the lowest production and population and the highest tech. Not sure how that works exactly.

[rgp151]

Something that I've noticed is that I seem a spend a lot more time in this game running around and expanding with Retro engines. It seems like getting out of Retros often takes forever and I'm expanding way out with just Retros or maybe Nuclear engines and sending lots of pop around really slowly. That phase of the game just seems to last a long time and I end up having populated a lot of planets with the starting Colony Ship design. Somehow it seems like there is a much longer expansion phase, and the tech tree moved very slowly for quite a while.

[Dp101]

Something that I've noticed is that I seem a spend a lot more time in this game running around and expanding with Retro engines. It seems like getting out of Retros often takes forever and I'm expanding way out with just Retros or maybe Nuclear engines and sending lots of pop around really slowly. That phase of the game just seems to last a long time and I end up having populated a lot of planets with the starting Colony Ship design. Somehow it seems like there is a much longer expansion phase, and the tech tree moved very slowly for quite a while.

I think this is largely a factor of larger map sizes, as you mentioned before. Or given that you're just on 50 stars for the most recent game, maybe the generation algorithm is kinder in some ways that aren't super visible.

Regarding your weirdness of AI empires' positions, my theory is that the bugs got stranded somewhere without range or environmental tech to get further, so were forced to sit around and tech for longer instead of building colony ships, giving them a temporary lead in tech. That or maybe the brains have spent a lot of time at war and not a lot of time researching.

Tech level is frustrating in that you kinda just have to calc it yourself. Not sure why they left it out of the UI here.

And lastly, I laid out the different AIs in my own thread, but Base AI is just generally decently competent, Modnar is much more optimised but still flavourful, and Xilmi is pure optimisation over flavour, with the only thing setting races apart being their innate bonuses. I've generally found swapping to a harder AI is a bigger jump than increasing difficulty, not sure if you've had the same experience.

[haphazard1]

Lots of interesting discussion. Thanks for the explanations and details on how spying hits work, very useful to know.

Life has been busy, so I have not had a chance to play more yet. I thought I would post a couple screen shots. My humble little lizard empire at turn 51:

Hopefully this will grow into a glorious huge lizard empire. But right now it is not very impressive. Sssla is the only real production, with the other three being a size 35, a poor world, and a recently colonized planet which has barely started developing.

The wider galaxy:

My lizards are pretty isolated out on the galactic edge. The bug scout which gave sort-of contact is visible along with my scout at Quenth in the east-northeast. I very much want to get that terran 95 before the bugs do. Sssla is building a barren colony ship for Nveryll, which should give me range to reach Quenth. I don't know if I can manage to get there before the bugs, though, and I can not get any fighters there much before a col ship anyway. Will have to see what happens.

Two of the other worlds in that area have no planets, so Quenth is the only path to expand in the north. Kennioth (east of Sssla) is habitable but needs range 6, or a huge hull to get reserve tanks on a col ship. Expansion that way is going to take a while.

Current goals are to colonize Nveryll and hopefully Quenth, while building more industry and working on some tech with a trickle of BCs from the small and poor worlds. I am not feeling confident about this start; if the bugs cut me off at Quenth I am going to be in a pretty poor spot.

[Dp101]

Lots of interesting discussion. Thanks for the explanations and details on how spying hits work, very useful to know.

Life has been busy, so I have not had a chance to play more yet. I thought I would post a couple screen shots. My humble little lizard empire at turn 51:

Hopefully this will grow into a glorious huge lizard empire. But right now it is not very impressive. Sssla is the only real production, with the other three being a size 35, a poor world, and a recently colonized planet which has barely started developing.

The wider galaxy:

My lizards are pretty isolated out on the galactic edge. The bug scout which gave sort-of contact is visible along with my scout at Quenth in the east-northeast. I very much want to get that terran 95 before the bugs do. Sssla is building a barren colony ship for Nveryll, which should give me range to reach Quenth. I don't know if I can manage to get there before the bugs, though, and I can not get any fighters there much before a col ship anyway. Will have to see what happens.

Two of the other worlds in that area have no planets, so Quenth is the only path to expand in the north. Kennioth (east of Sssla) is habitable but needs range 6, or a huge hull to get reserve tanks on a col ship. Expansion that way is going to take a while.

Current goals are to colonize Nveryll and hopefully Quenth, while building more industry and working on some tech with a trickle of BCs from the small and poor worlds. I am not feeling confident about this start; if the bugs cut me off at Quenth I am going to be in a pretty poor spot.

Ouch, that kind of start resembles most of mine that lead to losses. It also reminds me of the weirdest game I've had, also with the lizards, where I had an equally thin empire with multiple systems either side of the line all at around range 6. The thing is that I'd popped range 5 from an artifacts world early, which should have led to easy expansion, but instead I just had a single strand of planets to work my way down, and the shape was hugely inefficient for logistics. At least it looks like you'll have the ability to turn a bit soon. Have you considered trying to throw some reserve tanks + lasers onto a medium and send them to Quenth? Just 1-2 at most, since they wouldn't be there to actually win any fights, just to exist and intimidate. Hoping expansion goes well!

[rgp151]

Another game, where most of us were clustered together and the Klackons were all alone, left to take halve the galaxy uncontested while we each fought to grab 4 or 5 planets. I'd say for sure that its more common in this game than MoO for the starting placements to be unbalanced, at least using simply the star fields. I've run 50, 70 and 100 stars, and it seems in most of the games someone, sometimes me or sometimes some other race, ends up with like 50% of the planets before any fighting happens, while the others are all clustered together fighting for room. I run 5 opponents every time, no matter the map size.

And whoever is the one that has the most uncontested planets wins pretty much. I mean in so many games I'll have contacted 4 out of 5 opponents and am doing well against them, then I get news that the one I haven't met has 16 systems, then I meet them and they are way ahead and steamroll everyone. Its more manageable with Base AI, but the Base AI isn't very good.

[haphazard1]

Unbalanced starts did happen in MOO, particularly with larger galaxies. Most often with the rocks, of course, but other races could do it as well if they got lucky. I knew from the start that this game might have problems, as starting at the edge of the galaxy is always risky. Having two systems with no planets made that a lot worse. I may have to build a reserve tanks col ship to break out to the east, but that would tie Sssla up for a long time.

Building a couple LR laser fighters from my second world is a good idea. With my warp 1 engines, it will take them a long time to get to Quenth. Still worth trying, and if I do manage to colonize the planet at least it will have something in orbit. I am used to using the scout blockade tactic in MOO, which does not work in this game. Hopefully the bugs are not too close to Quenth.