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Remnants of the Precursors Succession Game?

8 turns for a ship is a bit long, but generally I don't max factories on the home world any time soon. But this is a little different with Sakkra, since they grow back so fast. But usually I plan for a general home world population of 70, so stop factories around 140-150. Because as you expand you will need to keep sending population off world so you won't have the pop to run the factories. So if you max out at 200 factories, in most cases that's wasted  because your pop will hover around 70 for much of the early game as you keep send pop out to new planets. Of course this depends on circumstances, like what kind of forward planets you get, etc. But the sooner you transition from factories to research/colony ships teh sooner you get that advantage and building extra factories that aren't used is a waste.

But again, this is a little different with Sakkra since they grow so fast. It depends on how many planets you will be colonizing quickly so how much pop you'll sending away, etc. It can make sense to build more like 180 factories. This is also why I like taking Planetology +10, since for one thing its so cheap with Sakkra its practically free, it also boosts your worker production a little earlier and with Sakkra gives you more room to grow right away. I'll often take it, even if I plan to also take Improved Eco. This is especially true because tier 2 is very hit an miss anyway.
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(April 29th, 2024, 08:09)Sullla Wrote: If I can provide a little constructive feedback, this was where things went off the rails a bit:

In retrospect, yeah, it was a mistake to build a colony ship for Rinnenth rather than more factories when it's not going to be in any danger from the AIs - it was just so close by and easy to settle and with a good size I figured leaving it uncolonized would be a mistake. Live and learn! smoke
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rgp151 notes a very good point about pop seeding often meaning the homeworld does not have max pop, so you also do not need max factories. This can vary by game depending on the second world (I often use the second world to seed later colonies, to keep the home world with more production to crank out col ships). But you need enough factories to keep your (reduced) pop busy.

Anyway, past choices are what they are. Fenn had specific reasons which were valid at the time. We will continue and grow -- once someone claims the save. lol Who is up next?
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Well, since we're on the topic of factory maxing there's something I've always been curious about: Playing as the Meklar/Meklonar, do you still max factories before doing anything else? Because sitting there all the way to 400 feels like it can take absolutely forever, and in any case where there's a third colonisable world within reach of the start with zero research necessary, it feels like getting the extra planet up sooner so it can start maxing factories itself is useful - if you stop your homeworld at, say, 300 factories, you've got 1.4x as much production as anyone else (if we pretend waste cleanup doesn't exist since that makes maths harder) when they'd start building colony ships, so if that speed is acceptableish, taking a break to make 1 colony ship and then going back to factories feels not terrible? If the situation required research to claim a world though, I'd probably always finish factories first. Obviously not a question relevant for this game though, I'd just been missing the opportunity to ask.

Anyways, I'll take the save now. Going to play up through eot 50 to get back to regular numbers.
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Right, so, rejigging stuff. Not going to pass any judgement as to what was done/not done before, but will make some changes in line with general thoughts in the thread:

At Sssla (starting state: 100 pop 80 factories, investment split evenly between ships/research/cleanup), I shift everything from shipbuilding and research into factories - improved eco would be nice, but it'll have to sit there at 31% odds for a bit, and it's not unlikely that it'll pop in the next few turns at that percent anyway. I don't want to wind up sitting here researching and watching it tick up 30%, 35%, 40% without popping while being aware of how much potential production from more factories is being lost each turn.
Heralth (89 pop, 100 factories, all non-cleanup spending in shipbuilding): Switch to building fighters, just 4 of them, and everything else to industry - a pair of fighters over each contested world in the north will (or should, at least) secure them as well as a colony ship would, and at a fraction of the price (and thus also way sooner). Once these fighters complete everything will be put into industry.
Rinnenth (41 pop/25 factories, building factories): No changes, looks lovely, just needs time to get those factories up.

Other than that, some minor shuffling of scouts occurs to prepare for the range increase Valstrath will offer once the colony ship arrives there in 4 turns. I hit end turn.

Fighters complete at Heralth, back to industry. Its pop grows to max the following turn as well.

Colonising Valstrath T38 brings us into contact with the Meklonar, who ask for 100BCs in trade, I take them up on it, dial up espionage enough to get the one spy. Heralth starts sending pop, 3 at a time, will send 9 in total, may well use eco slider to regrow since it's so slow when almost maxed but for now putting the slider into factories instead will have better payoff.

Improved eco restoration pops turn 39, with the only following option being... Death Spores. I know being Excellent in planetology doesn't affect the chances of techs showing up, but I feel the need to complain regardless that this sure doesn't feel excellent lol. Spy report comes in, and, well:




I don't think I've seen an AI with zero techs of any kind before! Usually they'd have *something*, but I guess all those additional factories slow down research starting up. The fighters also go out this turn:




Still so far so good. Given that there was only a Meklonar scout over one of the two worlds, I'm assuming that this is at the very extent of their range. The full contact currently makes no sense to me though, unless they somehow took Jeruth in the 2 turns since I had a scout over it. The suspicions about where the bots are coming from lines up with spy info, as Meklon turns out to be at the red star almost directly NW of Valstrath. The blue star closer to us has a single Transistor fighter, which forces our scout to retreat, while the southern orange star holds an inferno world:




I take the time to look up what's necessary for diplomatic contact, and apparently reserve tanks are included when taking into account contact range, so that explains why we can talk. I uh, also realise this turn that I forgot to keep sending transports, but Heralth is maxing factories this turn so I take some of the spare production capacity and put it into eco to send 4 pop this time, and 5 pop the next, with the remainder going into restarting colony ships on turn 42. The automatic slider setting would really rather it builds its base first, but there's zero threat right now so it makes more sense to push out.

Turn 43 has the Kholdan saying hi for 150BC, which basically confirms they have longer range tech than we do, as nowhere that our scouts can reach is colonised by them. I take this opportunity to revise trade with the Meklonar to 125BC, and get spies up on the bugs, as much to see their planets moreso than their techs. And the need for that becomes pretty clear the following turn, with a news broadcast helpfully telling us they have 6 planets. They have range 5, as do the bots, which makes Garuga just barely unsafe, but it'll be ours in 7 turns. Sssla also gets to max its factories T45 and starts research again, though relative field spending feels a bit uncertain atm - usually I'd push planetology to get hostile worlds sooner, but with death spores as the only immediate reward for that it feels not great. In the end I equalise fields and take 2 ticks from each one to be split between planetology and propulsion, trusting in the excellent rating to make death spores less of a brick wall to get through, and badly craving nuclear engines.

Rinnenth maxes pop the following turn and will start helping with research, with a bit left over currently from what it will take to finish factories for next turn. And we see the bug colony that got us in range, the yellow star NE of Sssla.

A few turns of just hitting end turn follow, with the next item of note on T49 being a new colony ship destined for Jeruth, and an armed meklonar ship forcing a retreat at the inferno planet to the west. It's only size 10 so I won't be broken up over losing it, though their ship also goes elsewhere immediately after forcing the retreat so it seems safe to say they won't be grabbing it anytime soon.

Nothing much of note happens on the last turn, so a few notes: Firstly, the bugs have a NAP with the rocks, presumably they're somewhere in the horrific nebulas beyond the bugs. They're also willing to trade any of terraforming +10/ECM1/hyper Vs, but only in exchange for improved eco, which seems like a poor trade but I wanted to note it anyway. Currently all our worlds are maxed and researching, besides Valstrath which is still establishing itself, and hopefully we'll get 2 more colonies shortly. Other than that, not much to say. An overview, showing off the currently known extent of the bugs (bearing in mind we know they have at least 1 more system since they triggered the expansion warning):




The orange flag indicates where the bots pushed us back. Anyways, basically, my confidence in this position is directly proportional to the quality of upcoming planetology tech lol. Let's hope for good stuff on the horizon, and by that I mean literally any tech with the prefix "controlled". If somehow we don't see any at the next tier of planetology, and we also don't have range 7, then I'd suggest going back for range 6 just to grab the worlds that are just out of our reach. If only anyone would trade us their fuel cells! I'd even consider giving them improved eco for them! But of course, the AI would much rather us be kept in our cage.


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Surprise! Turns out I'm a girl!
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Looks like a nice turn set, Dp101. thumbsup

I probably should have maxed factories rather than sticking with the expansion and tech projects.

Having only death spores in the next Planetology tier makes me sad. frown Being excellent in the field does not help much when there are no useful choices.

The bugs have been busy bees with their expansion. And they know the rocks...that could be a problem later on, if they grab tons of worlds. Hopefully that horrible nebula will slow them down a lot.

Re factory maxing with the machines, I usually keep building factories on the home world until I can produce 5 turn col ships. Once I have completed whatever early expansion is possible, then I will finish maxing industry. Otherwise it does delay expansion too much to wait for Meklon to max out. Opening tech fields to see if I can get some clean up tech and IIT9 is also very important for the machines, and I will try to find some BCs for a trickle of early research.

Fenn
haphazard1
Dp101 - just played
Next up - mystery player (could be you!)

RefSteel - still map making?
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I just want to remind everyone to be EXTREMELY careful when spying on xenophobic empires.

This applies to all personalities:
If your spy is caught in espionage, you get an espionage penalty. If your spy is caught in sabotage, you get a sabotage penalty.

But for xenophobes only:
If your spy is caught hiding, then a sabotage confession is forced out of him. That counts as sabotage!

So unless you are sure that your spies can remain hidden safely, think long and hard about maintaining spy networks in xenophobic empires. THEY HATE SPIES.
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Thanks for the info, Ray F. Useful to know. nod

Of course, even without spies you can still get framed. Xenophobic empires then hate you even though you did not do anything. Ask me how I know. frown
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Huh, didn't know that about spies. I still feel like it's better to piss them off than to be flying in the dark though, xenophobic factions are likely to eventually be enemies no matter what, and while delaying that is nice, as Haphazard said often you don't get any choice in the matter due to repeated framing. So I still stand by my actions, but I appreciate knowing more about the systems at work here.
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(April 29th, 2024, 20:30)Ray F Wrote: So unless you are sure that your spies can remain hidden safely, think long and hard about maintaining spy networks in xenophobic empires. THEY HATE SPIES.

Cool flavor - but given the number of spies constantly getting caught by the player in the games I'm reading about, does this mean that Xenophobic empires are in a perpetual rolling state of war with other AIs in the galaxy? Or do the other AIs spy less on Xenophobes than on other races, knowing how much they hate it? If the latter, does the player's race have a hidden "personality," as it does in MoO, that affects the way other races see them (and make decisions about them)?

Er, but back to this SG: I've indeed been fiddling with the EitB map while waiting for everyone to check in, but I can try to get some turns in on this one tomorrow - I'll post a Got It when I can if nobody else does in the meantime. I don't have many useful comments on the turns so far, as I'm still very unfamiliar with RotP's interface changes. (I miss the Map screen, which y'all will mostly think is silly since we can always just zoom out, but I'm a weirdo, and I really miss MoO's Fleet screen, which Ray F will not even possibly believe - but it let me see all my already-en-route fleets and where they were going, all in one place! Of course there are compensations; for instance, I love the tech progress bubbles visible from the main command screen!)
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