Round Two.

[Doc]

Ozy,

The new AIDS epidemic is not rampant among homosexuals. Homosexuals actually have the lowest numbers as far as new cases are concered.

The real danger is the Viagra being pumped into the sex pool. A lot of old timers never paid much attention to the AIDS crises. AIDS right now is running rampant through elderly communities. There are retirement communities now offering Sex Ed courses to old folks, much to their embarassment, showing how to wear a condom and how to prevent the spread of STDs. Of course, these numbers are for the US only.

The big fear of AIDS lies in the future. It's highly mutable. They have shown, under perfect laboratory conditions, that a skeeter could conceivably carry the disease some day. One shudders to think of airborn AIDS virus passable by a cough or a sneeze. Think about this. SARS has a 9% infection rate. And that's pretty scary. AIDS is a much tougher bug. It has an estimated 30% to 40% infection rate, depending on the strain. In it's current form. The whole world will be at risk some day.

I read some place that the number of new cancer cases grows geometrically, doubling each year. It has been called the quiet epidemic. It is the disease of older folks mostly, usually folks well past their prime. It's considered part of growing old and is accepted as such. Which is of course, bullshit in my book. Kids get it. Teens get it. Young whippersnapper types get it. All ages get it. But it does not strike the young in large enough numbers to gain enough attention and public outcry. When somebody like me gets it, it's "Shut up, it's part of growing old." When a 5 year old gets it, it's leave a glass jar at every gas station in town with dramatic heart string pulling picture pasted on, begging for money. Cancer treatments are expensive. I spent over 800 grand on everything the last round. I feel sorry for the poor folks that get it, as their voice mostly goes unheard and they don't have the money to fight it. And very little is done to prevent them from getting it or finding a cure. I will be damned if I am to go quietly into the night with cancer. Growing old my boney wrinkled cranky Southern ass.

[Charis]

If you guys would like to shift this over to another thread in General feel free to do
so, especially if you have hope of convincing other readers with facts about the
validity of your viewpoint. I'm a cancer research, and consider it an important issue
myself. But as it's going now, posters on both sides of the debate
have a near zero percent chance of changing their view, and will generate far
more heat than light ;-)

More important, could we keep this thread as a place to hear updates from Doc
and encourage him in his struggle, the ultimate struggle?

Thanks for your consideration,
Charis

[Hawkmoon]

Fight like Hell. :war: :war: :war:

I think we all know you well enough to be quite confident that you're going to give it everything you've got, but I think you're underestimating yourself this time. Don't go into this with a resigned attitude - go in with the Variant Scum-loving, Throw-Your-Best-At-Me-And-Watch-Me-Laugh-In-Your-Face chutzpah that we all know and love!

We're all pulling for you. And you can bet we'll all be checking back regularly to hear about your progress.

I wish you the very best,
Hawkmoon

[Doc]

To what end does one keep fighting something like this?

My pragmatist nature revolts.

I mean, how long can I, or anybody, fight something like this? This is Scorched Earth. My body. How much will be burned and cut away this time? And what of next time? And after? How much cutting before I am some piece of meat lying in a bed collecting dust? How much more of my self can I spend fighting this? And what of money... I have a lot of nest eggs tucked away. Many nest eggs. Little caches put away for a rainy day. What do I do when I exhaust those and start eating into my seed corn? The cost of fighting cancer is going to break the million dollar mark probably in the next few months. And to what end do I drive my self? Financial ruin, or, the consumption of my body? Reality has set in. Yes. I can probably fight this and win this time. And maybe the next time as well. But what about all those times after? I can't keep this up forever. If I beat it this time, what then? What do I have to look forward to? With the two lungs I have now, I have about one working lung. Both are heavily laced with scar tissue. Damage from all those years of chain smoking. If I lose a lung, where the hell does that leave me? Probably hooked up to something to help me breathe. Screw that. Lung transplant? Oh fun, more pills, every day, for the rest of my life. Pills for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Anti rejection drugs, immuno boosters, etc. And all of those will leave me so burned up and weak that when cancer comes around for Round Three, I wont have a snowball's chance in Hell. So screw that. Not an option.

It's got to end somewhere. I feel like whatsisname, that fellow that pushed that rock up the hill over and over.

I am not about to just lay down and give up, that's not what I have planned. But at some point, I think, it will come down to a draw situation. It will come to a point where it no longer makes sense to fight. And then what? I don't know. I reckon I could use this to my advantage and take this golden opportunity to whack somebody that I feel the world is better off without. (J/K) I know that's not funny... But I am sure I am not the only person in this situation that has thought that.

About all I got left that keeps my going is my contempt for most everything. So long as I have that, I think I can keep going for a good while longer. I still have a long shit list of things left undone and people whom I have not yet made their life miserable.

Plus, I want to stick around and see The Hobbit get made into a feature film. Woo.

[Charis]

> To what end does one keep fighting something like this?

> About all I got left that keeps my going is my contempt for most everything.

If that's all you have left, you may as well pack it in. :mellow:

If you have care left for you missus (which you do), if you have care left for the
people I know you've been helping find a meaning to wake up for in the morning
over the past few years, if you have another positive contribution left to make...
these are things worth fighting for. Fighting the good fight is not the same as fighting
well or fighting to the end, it's being in the right fight and giving it your all.

The battle is real, the risk is real, and you're right, some day the last battle will be upon you.
You can choose whether you go down swinging or not, that's a personal decision only you
can make, but the bigger decision is whether you cross the line full of nothing but hatred
and contempt, or whether you cross it doing something the Lord has called you to do.

Fight the good fight
Charis

[Doc]

Charis, I beg to disagree.

My contempt is my main motivation for almost everything.

My contempt for the social order has drove me to turn everything around me on it's head. My extreme dislike for scabby bloated rich scumbags has motivated me to assist the poor in rising above their station, just to annoy them. I was, at one time, poor my self. I am now comfortable in life. And damn, nothing pisses off the blue hairs more then new money. Puts their Titanic sized ginormous granny panties in a knot. The fact that I help the poor is secondary to the fact that I get great personal satisfaction for sowing the seeds of what many consider to be social anarchy. Having a part in breaking up the feudal factory town society around me is something I sit back at night with a nice martini cackling evily over.

My contempt for racism has motivated me to move against them with out mercy. Many lives have been radically changed because of my actions, as well as the actions of many others, all of whom had their own motivations. Some did it out of greed... It was economical to do so. Some did it to get famous. Some did it out of love. Some did it because it was the right thing to do. I did it out of contempt. I have been hurt time and time again, through no fault of my own, simply because of my genetics. For a long time, I longed to lash out and hurt those that hurt me. And I did. The fact that other people benefited is secondary to the fact of what I gained, deep personal satisfaction.

I am first and foremost, a Bastard. And not just in the fatherless sense. I am a Mean Spiteful Bastard. I just happen to learn toward better causes then most of my kind. When I do something, most of the time, it is for my own deep dark personal reasons that I don't expect anybody to understand. Make no mistake, everything I do is for my own selfish reasons. The fact that others get something out of them is just a happy side effect. I have no doubt that God uses my contempt. My rage. My seething cauldron of inner emotions that no human being will ever even begin to understand. God uses psychopaths, murders, liars, it takes all kinds. King David was an aldulterer, a liar, and a murderer. Moses was a liar and a murderer. Abraham was a liar. Elijah was a Tishbite, a barbarous people feared and hated. They were rude, violent, uncivilized oafs feared by all. Solomon was, well, what wasn't Solomon? Solomon broke every comandment and even had homosexual relations with his guardsmen. Look at Jesus... Did he build the Cornerstone of his church on a quiet emotionally stable person? No... Peter was a man with a violent temper. Just ask Malchus, who lost his ear to Peter's rage. Peter cursed, swore, had fits of temper, caused folks to drop dead with spoken words, and had a filthy mouth even in his own books of the Bible. And yet Paul said "Let all our faults be more like Peter's."

God takes people that have the nastiest inner demons, grabs them, sets them where they need to be, and then encourages every other God fearing person around them to get the hell away from the ranting raving lunitic doing his or her work. God takes those motivated by things that would make weaker softer Christians pee their prissy little britches. When God wants the serious stuff done, He turns to those that will get the sort of results He needs. What sort of lunatic begins to build a boat in the middle of fricking nowhere and tells folks that one day something strange called "rain" will happen. The world, which has never seen rain, is bound to laugh at this lunatic and question his motivations. God looks to those that are just slightly off kilter, those who do not play by the rules, those who have been gifted with just a slight sprinkle of insanity.

And so it is with me. I will continue to live, if only out of contempt for those that I know would love to see me dead. To annoy and bother. To chafe. I will continue to live out of spite. I will continue to live, and continue to be a thorn in the side of everything I detest. Damnit, I just remembered why I stuck around the first time this damn cancer reared it's ugly octopus head. I aint done yet. I still have a lot of people to piss off. A younger generation has come to power that has not yet learned the joys of dealing with a mean, spiteful, cantankerous old bastard.

Tommorow is Monday, the Last Day. I most likely wont loggon on Tuesday. I will be leaving early morning. My wife will not be going with me. Somebody needs to take care of the critters and she knows that I will be much happier knowing somebody I trust is here to take care of them right.

I will not hang up my gloves just yet. (Not that I ever wear them mind you) I have fought a good fight, and I have fought dirty. I have hit below the belt every occasion I could, and I have never followed those silly Queensbury Rules of Pugilism or whatever they are called. I aint done yet. Thank you Charis... I have realized that the fight is all I have left and it is a worthy fight in and of it self. Life has only recently been worth living, been good, happy, interesting.

[Sirian]

When God wants the serious stuff done, He turns to those that will get the sort of results He needs.

Men motivated by contempt?

Contempt is so much more effective than other motivations?

If a man feels contempt for something, he will try to change it? Should we all aspire to be more contemptful?

Foul temper, meanness and spite are keys to success?


Best wishes on overcoming the cancer. Again. :wub:


- Sirian

[WarBlade]

Originally posted by Sirian@May 3 2004, 10:43 PM
Men motivated by contempt?

Contempt is so much more effective than other motivations?

If a man feels contempt for something, he will try to change it? Should we all aspire to be more contemptful?

Foul temper, meanness and spite are keys to success?

YES!

[Doc]

Anger is more useful then dispair.

Look at Martin Luther, and the whole reformation. It was his contempt of corruption and greed that sparked him to write his 95 thesises. And from that, a great blow for freedom happened.

Contempt is a primary emotion, a base feeling, that in it's self is neither good or bad. It's a nuetral emotion. Like anger. It is not unhealthy nor is it evil. People will try to say it is... But they are wrong. Contempt and anger both can be powerful positive forces. If nothing made us contemptuous or angry we would never be motivated to express our discomfort or dislikes. It is how one acts on contempt and anger that determines if the feeling becomes negative or unhealthy.

I thought about this a lot while I was milking the goats and coughing up my spleen this morning. I think I need to go back into the money making business for a while. I realize that if I am to seriously fight this, I am going to need something to fall back on. What motivates me? Contempt. Contempt of cancer. I think it sucks eggs. There are a lot of things that might kill me. I will say it here and now, cancer will not be one of them. Or cancer related death. If I die on the table in the next few days, boy will I look foolish. Oh well, I am that fool.

My wife is dealing with this far better then I had expected, my main concern has been for her, and it is unfounded. She is utterly convinced that I will be just fine. She is a radiant creature. In the dawn this morning, as she stood outside watering the just bloomed irises, her hair waving at me in the breeze, I could not help but envy her for but a moment. She has been so solid through this, compaired to how she usually falls apart. More solid then I. I have run the gammut of emotions. She is a creature of pure light, almost more light then I can tolerate. She is, in the most cliche sense, my total and complete opposite. She is the white dove to my thunderbird. Something tells me that I don't need to change, that all of the virtue and good that I need exists in my other half. (And probably my better half at that.) By my self, I am a broken half of a man. I can look back and see that. It's ok for me to be hard flinty edges. It's ok for me to be rough and abrasive. Everything that I emotionally lack, God has provided for. I have figured out a lot in the last year or so of my life, and I guess even a few things in the last week as the time draws near. Behind every cranky irritable man of God is a good compassionate woman. And I have the best.

[Sirian]

Something tells me that I don't need to change, that all of the virtue and good that I need exists in my other half.

Need to change? I agree, you don't need to change. Need implies something you cannot do without, and clearly you can get by as you always have.

Then again, do you need to smell that rose? Do you need to enjoy that egg salad sandwich? Do you need eggs or sandwiches at all? Or is it possible for you to stop evaluating in terms of "needs" and think instead of terms of possibilities?

By my self, I am a broken half of a man.

Perhaps. But you are a distinct soul. A belief that you don't "need" to heal, that it's fine to go on in a broken state because you can get by that way... There's truth to that concept, but is it the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

How does your wife see you? Is it contempt that attracts her? You don't seem to be speaking with contempt for her. Nor have I heard you speak with contempt for your critters. There's plenty of light in you. You just don't want to face the implications of that. It doesn't fit neatly within your belief structure.

It's easy to love the beautiful things, the harmless things, the innocent things. But funny, I don't remember the mandate being "love thy innocent and harmless and goodwilled neighbor." No, the directive was a bit more broad than that. In fact, it specifically challenges you to love your enemies, too. I don't think that's ever been one of your strengths, though I know you've worked at it very hard at times. Just that you keep those bits hidden and play PR man by consistently trying to forward this image of you as a chunk of granite.

When the going gets rough, Doc gets tough. And that's good. But you're not as broken as you like to say, and sometimes you take the easy out, to retreat to the familiar, to try to gain control over things that are clearly out of your control.

It's ok for me to be hard flinty edges. It's ok for me to be rough and abrasive.

Rough is not the same as contemptuous. Abrasive is not the same as destructive. I've been shouted down by RB onlookers for "not being nice" to you, at times. "Crossed the line." You and I share a belief in the value of appropriate abrasiveness. "Being nice" never foments change. Improving on things means paying attention to where they could be done better, and that always steps on somebody else's competing interests.

I've always had the sense that there wasn't time to be nice to you. You appreciate nice but nice doesn't penetrate. Nice flows through your space as background music, but it never grabs you. You hold nice at arm's length, insisting that you can't afford it. You actually fear it. You fear that emotion is a zero sum game, that if you allow yourself to feel gentler emotions in any depth that you'll lose your edge. You look around and see plenty of folks who are soft, weak, and you fear turning into that if you don't "hold the line". But it doesn't work that way. Of course it's OK for you to be hard flinty edges, but it is also OK for you to become more than that. You won't lose what makes you strong. Instead, you will become even stronger. You don't lose parts of yourself when you grow. You add in new parts, you become greater, more whole, more capable.

This "I don't need to learn about that because my other half takes care of it" line is soft and weak. You can do better than that.

These battles for survival are dangerous, risky. I hope you survive this round, but some day something's going to get you and take you down. What if it is this one? I know you've thought about that. I've thought about it in choosing what to say to you, and what not to say. What if I don't get another chance?

There's something else behind the contempt, a greater force. Contempt can help you figure out what is wrong but it can't point the way to what is right. Well, Doc, I'll be blunt. Any idiot can see what's wrong. It takes skill, dedication and wisdom to figure out how to make it better. Since, as you say, you've made a lot of things better over the years, I find your current analysis to be... incomplete.


- Sirian