American Politics Discussion Thread

[greenline]

You know Trump's campaign platform here isn't about Stop the Steal? Jan 6 happened, the lawsuits Trump opened about the election happened, he lost them. He's running as a regular candidate with a platform about making changes in 2024, not for overturning the 2020 election. The idea here is that people voting for Trump makes OUR DEMOCRACY more dead than the current situation of both parties needing to arrest the other to ensure victory? Because one of the candidates wanted to overturn an election? When democracy dies, what exactly does that look like? Show trials? Violations of people's rights? Contempt for the government as it exists among the general population? Aren't all those things happening right now?

I mean, there may not be an election at all in 2028. Or it might only have one party or one person on the ticket. But that outcome hardly seems contingent on Trump winning. The hysterical obsession over Jan 6 to all else shows a strange and myopic worldview. I can only wonder if the people doing Biden's job for him feel the same way.

I'm probably spamming this thread too much, so I will stop posting for a time.

[Mjmd]

Again, I think Jan 6 is the smoke, not the fire. He tried to overturn in many other ways. One of the scarier ones is that no republican can speak out against any of that. That has never happened before. In 2020 a lot of Republicans did the right thing. He tried to pressure them to overturn state results and they said no. I'm scared what they will say the next time if it isn't clear the American people won't put up with that; especially if their base is blindly devoted. And mind you a lot of the ones who said no are out replaced by people who very much seem willing to go along.

Should the Democrats overturn because they think Republicans are doing show investigations (except theirs lack this thing called evidence), because Republicans violate rights, because Republicans want to or did x, y or z? Again, you seem to think this is some unique non hypocrital consideration Republicans find themselves in. Democrats win every popular vote. They clearly have impetus to overthrow an election because more people think they are leading the nation in the correct direction RIGHT??? Its so easy to justify. It always has been. The weird thing is that we don't. Every election in every democracy every side thinks it is right. Thinks it should be in charge. And then only 1 of those sides gets to be in charge and the other sides just let it happen???? It goes against most of human history and instinct, but is how it has to be for this form of government to survive.

[GT]

   

I think that says it all.

It's a vote to either continue an imperfect democracy or to replace it with whatever-you-want-to-call-it-but-clearly-no-more-democracy.

I fear that the US will take the later way. Possibly with a breakaway, civil war, or a general breakdown of the system overall happening as some regions certainly don't want to go back to the 18th century. 

For the whole world, the 21st century looks darker and darker by the minute.

[CFCJesterFool]

The United States of America is a constitutional republic. It has NEVER been a democracy.

[BING_XI_LAO]

I think that says it all.

It's a vote to either continue an imperfect democracy or to replace it with whatever-you-want-to-call-it-but-clearly-no-more-democracy.

I fear that the US will take the later way. Possibly with a breakaway, civil war, or a general breakdown of the system overall happening as some regions certainly don't want to go back to the 18th century. 

For the whole world, the 21st century looks darker and darker by the minute.

Both men have been in office for four years already. 8 years Trump and 4 years Biden, or 4 years Trump and 8 years Biden, what's the big difference? 
Neither actually controlled the government while in office the first time, and they won't control it the second time. 
Both parties are explicitly committed to violating the First Amendment and the Second Amendment of the constitution, and probably a bunch of the rest of the Constitution if I could be bothered to check. So either both parties are traitors, or the US constitution is a mere negotiating position. A lawless shithole either way.
Both parties have actual policies that serve their oligarchic backers and are say 50% related in some way to whatever their voters want. Related in the sense of, like, spitefully doing the opposite, except for superficial handouts. Voters love their sugarlumps.

On balance, if the US wants to start yet another war, then Trump is the right candidate, since he can rile up the Trumptards, an important recruitment base for foreign aggression whether it's against Iran or China. Not sure what difference there is apart from that. After all, you have to get all three arms of government on your "side" at once to change course, if the Democrats/Republicans wanted to change course. And that lasts 2 years until more of the same rudderless mediocrity ensues.

[Miguelito]

The United States of America is a constitutional republic. It has NEVER been a democracy.

I always see this springing up on the internets and it legit confuses me... care to explain how both are mutually exclusive? And then how "of the people, by the people, for the people" is not rule by the demos? Or do you just think Cha/Phi was a bad pick?

[CFCJesterFool]

The United States of America is a constitutional republic. It has NEVER been a democracy.

I always see this springing up on the internets and it legit confuses me... care to explain how both are mutually exclusive? And then how "of the people, by the people, for the people" is not rule by the demos? Or do you just think Cha/Phi was a bad pick?

Why would it confuse you? Very basic stuff taught in grade school. You can always take an American government class online if you are really interested. The short of it is that there is no rule by the demos. The representatives are "elected" by the people democratically sure, but outside of certain state referendums, similar mechanisms, etc., the "people" do not run the government and have little say in policy. Once elected, representatives do whatever they can get away with until the next election.

[Mjmd]

@Mig some people get very confused that there are a bunch of different kinds of democracies. I think they are mainly confused by it as a way to either disparage America or to try to justify overturning said democracy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The United States is a VERY flawed democracy, but it is a democracy, and sadly its the worlds most geopolitically influential one.

[GT]

And if people don't realize that this very flawed democracy is at a real risk to become a democracy à la Russia if the election goes to the Republican candidate, then it's a democracy by name only very soon. (After all, even the DPRK claims to be a democracy..)

And yes, it's not a risk, it's literally a guarantee, and people talking about "Trump 2.0 isn't going to be worse than 1.0" is literally what Putin wants you to believe.

Project 2025 is real.

The Republican Party is the biggest threat to American democracy today. It is a radical, obstructionist faction that has become hostile to the most basic democratic norm: that the other side should get to wield power when it wins elections.

Biden shouldn't be running, and the fact he is is part of why America is in a very sad state, but if you've to chose between getting no promotion or getting fired (without jobs available), what you'd you choose?

I'm afraid that enough Americans will vote to get fired, will vote for the kleptocracy, and the end of what little bit of checks and balances they still had. The signs are VERY much written on the wall, anyone refusing to read them shall not have an excuse when the disaster happened.

[superdeath]

IF the supposed "projefct 2025" and all that ive read in it (just a brief BRIEF skim) is real, there will be rioting. Probably sparks of open conflict.