American Politics Discussion Thread

[Charr Babies]

We had a full term of trump and then a full term of biden back to back for a perfect comparison. Facts:

Trump - nothing worth worrying about

Biden -
20% increase of homelessness. The true indicator how crappy a country is doing
2 wars with genocide, 
and looking to start the third.

It can't get any worse! biden MUST go. Period!

Prove to me trump has done worse. I am not giving you wiggle room to mislead or distract from the issue

[Mjmd]

- I wonder if we had a missmanaged pandemic that caused any issues and increased homelessness? Again, do the Republicans have a plan? What have they done in the past? I wonder if they blocked any tax credits for a while that could help with things like child hunger. I'm sure they would never do such a thing......
- Trump has shown more unequivocal support for Israel than Biden has. That is a fact.
- Trump has no real plan of ending the Ukraine war other than to give Putin what he wants. Something the Ukrainians will not let him do. Its also a horrible geopolitical decision as far as showing support to allies / that we aren't just easy pushovers if autocrats want to go invading.

I CAN BE WORSE. I think people always think they are living in the worst time, but you go back and look at history and go "you know what no that isn't true". A very common thing is to think you know what one side has done bad I'll vote for the other side. But I think its important to look at the actual history and also look at proposed policies. Heh our economy isn't as good as it could be lets vote for the guy wanting to pass massive tariff reform!!! I'm sure that hasn't caused at least two recessions and inflation in the past.

Trump tried to overturn our election. I've argued before IF you believe he was the greatest president ever and you believe he will fix every issue this is still worth voting against. This is the foundation of our systems and country. This is more than enough reason. But I can go on.

- Other than that he was also the most corrupt president IN OUR HISTORY.
- Vastly weakened our standing in the world by doing things like tariff wars with allies and just going solo on most of his foreign policy. Our alliance network is one of our greatest strengths and he didn't and doesn't care or understand. Again, I also won't miss foreign policy via tweet.
- On a related note loved to threaten nuclear war.
- He withdrew from the UN humans rights council. Not only giving a gift to adversaries but pretty might be a good indicator for the Gaza situation.
- Tried to influence Ukraine to investigate political rival.
- Mismanaged a pandemic because he is incapable of ever admitting he is wrong. Again, people like him for his straight talk, but when he does things like say "its not a big deal" he then has to stick to that forever because he is incapable of ever admitting he is wrong. This didn't come from no where as he got rid of the team Obama had set up for pandemics and cut the CDC funding prior.
- Vastly increased deficit to give unpaid tax breaks to the wealthy.
- Publicly pressured the fed to keep interest rates down. Again, there is a reason the fed is supposed to be separate.
- Appointed 3 very conservative judges to supreme court that have done things like give presidents unlimited immunity and overturning Chevron. 
- His response to Charlottesville and rise in hate groups in general.
- He let Russia get away with bounties on American soldiers.
- In general showed no regard for dead or maimed American service members.
- A general disregard for facts and science.
- Instigated the longest government shut down in history.
- Helped the Saudis cover up murder of a journalist. I'm sure their $2 billion to Kushner was entirely because of his investing acumen.
- Separated children from their families.
- LIED A TON. So so so many lies. You've admitted this. Its actually a great tactic. Lie about everything and no one remember all the crazy lies.
- We have no evidence Biden has pressured the DOJ, but we have plenty that Trump did. Again a separation of powers violation.
- Had a slew of controversial pardons, including his own people like Banon who was in for fraud related to the border wall.
- Again, I left out children and officials under him for his corruption analysis, but there is plenty to go around from lavish offices to heavy use of private planes. There were over a dozen forced out amid ethics scandals and there are more that should have been.
- Anyone who disagreed with him was fired or forced out. I've said this before surrounding yourself with yes men isn't historically a great move.

I tried to list mainly ones that I thought weren't more normal political controversies. IE I think x policy should be done, but Trump did Y. Like diverting defense spending to building the wall. I mean I would argue its stupid yes, but I'm sure others would argue its not, so excluding things like that (although the corruption in those contracts should be noted). It also meant I didn't including his climate policies even though I believe that to be a big deal. It also means leaving out things like his budget cuts impacting low income families. Relevant to one of the issues you say you care about, so noting, but there are a slew along a similar vein, so you just blindly ignoring is curious to me.

[Charr Babies]

- I wonder if we had a missmanaged pandemic that caused any issues and increased homelessness? Again, do the Republicans have a plan? What have they done in the past? I wonder if they blocked any tax credits for a while that could help with things like child hunger. I'm sure they would never do such a thing......
- Trump has shown more unequivocal support for Israel than Biden has. That is a fact.
- Trump has no real plan of ending the Ukraine war other than to give Putin what he wants. Something the Ukrainians will not let him do. Its also a horrible geopolitical decision as far as showing support to allies / that we aren't just easy pushovers if autocrats want to go invading.

I CAN BE WORSE. I think people always think they are living in the worst time, but you go back and look at history and go "you know what no that isn't true". A very common thing is to think you know what one side has done bad I'll vote for the other side. But I think its important to look at the actual history and also look at proposed policies. Heh our economy isn't as good as it could be lets vote for the guy wanting to pass massive tariff reform!!! I'm sure that hasn't caused at least two recessions and inflation in the past.

Trump tried to overturn our election. I've argued before IF you believe he was the greatest president ever and you believe he will fix every issue this is still worth voting against. This is the foundation of our systems and country. This is more than enough reason. But I can go on.

- Other than that he was also the most corrupt president IN OUR HISTORY.
- Vastly weakened our standing in the world by doing things like tariff wars with allies and just going solo on most of his foreign policy. Our alliance network is one of our greatest strengths and he didn't and doesn't care or understand. Again, I also won't miss foreign policy via tweet.
- On a related note loved to threaten nuclear war.
- He withdrew from the UN humans rights council. Not only giving a gift to adversaries but pretty might be a good indicator for the Gaza situation.
- Tried to influence Ukraine to investigate political rival.
- Mismanaged a pandemic because he is incapable of ever admitting he is wrong. Again, people like him for his straight talk, but when he does things like say "its not a big deal" he then has to stick to that forever because he is incapable of ever admitting he is wrong. This didn't come from no where as he got rid of the team Obama had set up for pandemics and cut the CDC funding prior.
- Vastly increased deficit to give unpaid tax breaks to the wealthy.
- Publicly pressured the fed to keep interest rates down. Again, there is a reason the fed is supposed to be separate.
- Appointed 3 very conservative judges to supreme court that have done things like give presidents unlimited immunity and overturning Chevron. 
- His response to Charlottesville and rise in hate groups in general.
- He let Russia get away with bounties on American soldiers.
- In general showed no regard for dead or maimed American service members.
- A general disregard for facts and science.
- Instigated the longest government shut down in history.
- Helped the Saudis cover up murder of a journalist. I'm sure their $2 billion to Kushner was entirely because of his investing acumen.
- Separated children from their families.
- LIED A TON. So so so many lies. You've admitted this. Its actually a great tactic. Lie about everything and no one remember all the crazy lies.
- We have no evidence Biden has pressured the DOJ, but we have plenty that Trump did. Again a separation of powers violation.
- Had a slew of controversial pardons, including his own people like Banon who was in for fraud related to the border wall.
- Again, I left out children and officials under him for his corruption analysis, but there is plenty to go around from lavish offices to heavy use of private planes. There were over a dozen forced out amid ethics scandals and there are more that should have been.
- Anyone who disagreed with him was fired or forced out. I've said this before surrounding yourself with yes men isn't historically a great move.

I tried to list mainly ones that I thought weren't more normal political controversies. IE I think x policy should be done, but Trump did Y. Like diverting defense spending to building the wall. I mean I would argue its stupid yes, but I'm sure others would argue its not, so excluding things like that (although the corruption in those contracts should be noted). It also meant I didn't including his climate policies even though I believe that to be a big deal. It also means leaving out things like his budget cuts impacting low income families. Relevant to one of the issues you say you care about, so noting, but there are a slew along a similar vein, so you just blindly ignoring is curious to me.

Again, I have no love for trump and I am not about to defend him. I am saying biden has to go, and since there's no other choice than trump then he's my man.

We have already gone over some off those issues, and I would gladly go over them on another thread, another day. I am not letting you go off on a tangent like you trolled that green guy all over the places.

You have admitted just a few posts up that why you think trump is not the lesser evil is simply conjecture. Back paddling and thousands more words is not going to change the facts. Case closed. 

[Mjmd]

Sorry you saying "prove he was worse" I assumed meant I could prove he was worse.

I admitted on a specific issue that it is conjecture on what Trump would do. Its good conjecture. Its rooted in facts vs support for your opinion he would be better being rooted in???? You've never even made a case for why you think he would be better other than "Biden bad" (although on Ukraine I would argue a solid B, but my argument is we should do more not nothing). Make a case for why Trump would be better other than "it couldn't be worse". Because it could. How many lives have been saved by Biden pressuring Israel and supplying aid. Its still an F. We are still supplying the side committing the genocide and stopping UN actions, but its also not nothing. Trump has criticized Biden for that. So is Trump more likely to pressure or more likely to "let them finish the job". If you have a case, make it. Just saying "biden bad" doesn't mean "trump good". That is an easy logical fallacy.

[greenline]

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/whos-weird

I am not sure if the effects measured in the article are accurate, but it does seem like it speaks to the mindset of a lot of people on the internet, at least. I would find it amusing if the people who had been harming the 2024 democratic campaign the most were the braindead zombies on cable news and social media repeating the phrase "dangerous to our democracy".

Not that I expect support for Harris to remain when she actually has to talk about what she wants to do, and people start to smell the xanax. But who knew, people wanted governance more then they cared about traitors to le democracy and right wing extremism blah blah blah.

[Mjmd]

I mean I was one of the people who thought better of the Republican party before Trump. At the time I was pretty well into my vote cartoon character phase.

I found this quote from the article relevant to me.

There are millions upon millions of American voters ‒ certainly liberals and independents, and I’d bet a decent slice of conservatives ‒ who have spent the past eight or so years watching Trump and the MAGA circus and thinking: “Wow, this is all very weird.”…

The rise of Trumpism and the bizarre chaos it ushered in ‒ from family members lost down conspiratorial rabbit holes to the denial of facts and abandonment of shared reality.

But yes I find it depressing that overturning an election is not weird or not as important as other things being weird. Again, to me it shows an acceptance of the unacceptable.

[darrelljs]

[Charr Babies]

But yes I find it depressing that overturning an election is not weird or not as important as other things being weird. Again, to me it shows an acceptance of the unacceptable.

You and I have very different morals. Judging by how the us is founded I guess it is not surprising how you can defend genocide is not the most heinous crime. To me, it shows moral corruption at its utmost.

[Mjmd]

Judging someone based on the past actions by entirely differently people is just stupid. Generational math dictates we all have assholes in our past and we all have people that those assholes abused. My view is it matters what we do.

I never defended genocide. However, you are showing a picture of a man who has, invited recently to the US by the side you say you will vote for. Gav has recently rightly berated me for judging others morals, but I will say its illogically. Make your argument or SHUT UP. Just repeating the same garbage without actually making an argument is ad nauseam. If you actually believe Republicans would be better on Gaza please explain why without using "Biden bad". As noted that isn't a logical argument in the first place and in the second Kamala is running not Biden.

[Charr Babies]

As you are always so fond of saying look back in history... 
Stating what trump did is worse than genocide on tens of thousands of innocent women and children is beyond outrageous, IS defending genocide not being the most heinous crime. Corrupted to the core.


I wonder if Putin would get the same warm welcome.


When we should be doing this