[Spoilers] Whosit is playing for second

[Whosit]

Wasn't sure that I'd be a getting a turn this morning but Chev came through! (And I work remotely last couple days of the week )

I'm also beginning the laborious process of making a Master spreadsheet for tracking everything in my Empire, but that's probably gonna be a WIP until I have a little more free time. I'm, uh, definitely still playing for second place. Yup.




Here I am being annoying to greenline. The fact that the Settler hasn't moved since last turn def makes me think that they want to settle where my scout is. I can stay here for about 8 more turns. :3 Please note that before my eastern cities started to develop that Korea's loyalty pressure extended 2 more tiles out.




There's a shallow water passage here. I expect that all this land is in someone else's backyard, but it could still prove to be a valuable place to try and Settle. I'll need Shipbuilding to get a Settler across, and that's not a high priority at the moment, but definitely something to keep in mind. (Popped back in game to see that the Iron tile is red, but  no Loyalty pressure showing. Guessing the last city state is nearby. Wonder if I can meet it from the shore?)




Closing in on the barbs up north. Dreadful lands, but my people yearn for the salt mines.




I remembered to max production here. Won't be growing to size 4 any time soon, but I want this Market ASAP.




I finally remembered that I could see the beliefs selected for founded religions. This is the Khmer. Wonderful name lol. So, River Goddess as expected for Pantheon, but a different set of beliefs from the "standard" Khmer picks. Choral Music explains some things--Khmer has been gaining civics faster than otherwise expected, and they just got Political Science (last turn). Tithe is also an interesting choice. This reads as Archduke looking to make up in areas they're lacking otherwise, which makes sense.




Overview of the Empire. Can barely squeeze it in.

Forgot to mention it, but Japan finished a Settler last turn, so they should finally be getting another city soon.

I was able to glean a few more things from the stat tracking. Korea is running the Caravansaries and Conscription policies. Their gpt from last turn was 14, which adds up if those two policy cards are in play. I wouldn't be surprised if Urban Planning is still the other Eco card, and the Diplo card doesn't really matter lol. Also spotted that Urtin Duu is working on a Monument. Korea's power went up to 230, suggesting another 25 strength unit was trained. 

For all the infrastructure that Korea is building, I still am amazed at all the troops being squeezed in..... Even if I am able to go to war with 5 Legions and a Great General, I'm going to need to keep producing support troops because I think I could get overwhelmed by sheer numbers. It does not look like greenline has begun producing a Tier 1 Government Plaza building yet.

Also, based on looking at active tiles, I think that Arirang has a food surplus of 5.5 and has 12-13 production depending if Urban Planning is slotted in or not. Compared to +4 fpt and 17 prod in Bombay at the same size. Greenline is focusing on growth in the cap by working the two wheat farms.

[Whosit]

Hunting down barbs.




Heck yeah! Useful info. And the quest it has for me.... Eureka for Iron Working. My civic timings are working out, too, because if I get the boost FIRST then I should still get the +1 envoy from Diplomatic League, THEN I can swap it to Charismatic Leader. Gotta get all the little advantages you can.

Oh, looks like I am still blocking Korea's settler. We'll see if the archer/settler pair stay put again next turn or not lol.

I made a minor goof in Chartreux. Culturally gained the 1/3 Deer tile, and I just worked that since "more production" = "more good." Only after the save did I realize that I'd have actually been better off running the 2/2 tile to grow faster. I'd still finish the Commercial Hub at the same time, but I'd have growth 2 turns faster. I can swap it back and have growth in 5 turns instead of 6, at least. Every pop counts in Civ 6! And sometimes growing faster actually gets your build done faster.

The Khmer finished another district, I believe. If it's generating any great people points, I should see that next turn. Though it could be a Government Plaza.

I am working and reworking my Master spreadsheet every moment I can, to try and see if I can shave turns off anything anywhere. It's a lot to keep track of, especially Builders.

[Whosit]

I must admit that I have not been sober every time I have played my turns. Can you guess which ones?

[Whosit]

Hooray! Third turn of the day!

So after spending like 2 hours earlier today fussing around with which Civics I would complete and when, I realized I have to do that ALLLL over because I forgot that Autocracy would add +2 to ALL Yields. Ah, well. I was also somehow mistaken about the timing on a Builder chop for the Temple of Artemis.




Does anyone remember me wondering if greenline would try to get a Builder through here? Since it would be the only way to go improve the Turtles? Well.... my prediction came true!




None of that! LOL




I also upgraded another Archer. I'll make that back almost exactly by harvesting the Maize. I did check before harvesting by giving the tile to Bengal.... the UI does based on the modifiers the chop would get.




I waited until this turn to upgrade the Archer because I knew I would be picking Conscription, so I didn't have to pay any maintenance on it earlier. Anyway, here's to +25% to Wonder production!




I goofed in my planning slightly. Thought I would get both chops next turn. But it should finish on Turn 71! Not toooo bad.




Since Korea moved the Settler there, decided it was time to get the Scout out. Didn't want to get trapped there and have to go all the way around again.




I don't think I'm going to actually turn it, sadly, but at least it should be locked into a pretty useless state for a while.

Looks like China is the first other civ to get a 7th Civic. Based on time, I'd say Mysticism of Military Tradition. Y'know, the only two cheap options that were certainly boosted.

I'm very excited to get the first World Wonder! I'll be curious to see what response, if any Korea has.

[Whosit]

Not sure what happened to CMF today, but looks like no save for me today.

I did spend some time going back to my spreadsheet on Korea, because I have a bit better of a perspective now and can see some of the mistaken assumptions I made. Still a lot of guesswork (a little hard to track Builders trained because I didn't keep a ton of pictures of Korean territory--I'd have to track when improvements were made). But at the very least, right now I'd guess that Korea's standing army is: 2 scouts, 3 warriors, and 6 archers. I think that Korea has been running Agoge ever since Craftsmanship (which was researched before Foreign Trade, I had gotten that wrong).

Except now, they're running Conscription. High number of Archers still screams "Defense" to me. Either way, Bengal will have both its Encampment and its Walls complete by the time our Friendship expires, so I think I will be safe. But it is doubtful that this will be Korea's army in 15 turns. I'm sure that greenline views me as a hostile neighbor, and while I'm going to wait until the last moment to upgrade my units, stockpiling gold is probably going to be a sign that I'm planning something. I mean, not to mention building Encampments and walls.

It's actually a little doubtful I'll have the money needed for all 5 Legion upgrades (might need to delay to build a Legion naturally). We'll see, we'll see..... The point I was getting to, though, is if 5 Legions, with a Great General, and swapping to Oligarchy for the +4 combat bonus even enough to attack into a ton of archers and probably swordsmen by that point? If greenline hoards gold, should be enough to upgrade 3 warriors to swordsmen.

No sooner did I post this than the turn arrived LOL

[RefSteel]

Seriously though, it wasn't that it was Elizabeth of India so much as who was playing.

Ha - true, but neither do I expect Whosit of Rome vs. greenline of Korea to play out in quite the same way as LiPing-to-Whosit of Rome vs. Plako of Korea! Though I admit greenline did have a fairly long-lasting island empire in his latest Civ4 game (just-ended PB74) it ... wasn't the same.

[Whosit]

Big news this turn, big news. I always think it's gonna be a quiet one, but no.




Krill found me by boat. Hooray! Info! Krill asks for Friendship and greenline offers a deal...

Korea wants Open Borders for Open Borders, straight up. Hmmm..... I was considering sending the offer back with a "lost income from Venice penalty" of like, asking Korea for 8 gpt for the deal. I'm sure greenline would refuse. Buuuuuut.... I'm not even going to offer that on the off chance that they'd take it, because.... Mo Li Hua grew to size 3, and is losing loyalty much faster. Because it's unhappy now.

Because, obviously, greenline wants to be able to hook up Turtles.

Debating Krill's offer for Friendship, but I can see Krill is Friends with Unknown (Khmer) but NOT with Korea. And Krill has a military power nearly equal to Korea. So I'm thinking we might get a split happening here.... Yeah. Friends with China.




Also, Japan has still met no one but me? Imagine if CMF had gone just a few more tiles south..... But good for me that Japan and Korea can't team up against me, for now.




Sailed further south. Will this be a Chinese city, or a Khmer city?













Chop estimate include Magnus but NOT build bonuses. Chop was ultimately worth 88 (25% bonus). Feels good to get half a Wonder with a single chop. This also tells me that the Magnus bonus is fully applied first, and any additional modifiers are applied after. Which is actually a bit stronger than if both modifiers were applied to the base value at the same time. Very useful info.




Temple of Artemis will be complete next turn. I can't wait!




Rainforest chop for comparison. No Magnus bonus, obviously, but splits value in half compared to woods. I wonder if the fractional .5 is calculated, or if it's lost. Production applied immediately, but not the food....




Resources for reference.




Closing in.... This Camp is really out there. Uh, neither of these units are going to make it home before the Friendship ends.

Took some pics of Korea land for later reference.




Newest city. Doesn't do much right now, especially not until the Silver is improved. That's definitely a better longterm spot, but I'd have still probably just settled on the Silver. I'm sure greenline has a builder on the way, though. And you can see that the city has begun on a Monument.




That looks like an Ancestral Hall. So greenline expects to build more Settlers this game? Also, I just realized, Korea would have earned 3 governor titles by now. That means ALL of the titles are in that one governor. I can do some math to see if it's Pingala.... I'm pretty sure it is, honestly.

It explains the science and culture boosts I noticed. On Turn 63, when the government plaza was completed, Pingala got the culture boost (worth +2 at the time). Pingala was first assigned to Scarborough Fair on turn 51, but was moved to the city formerly known as Venice on turn 56 before getting a chance to establish. Established in Venice/Mo Li Hua on turn 61, which explains the 2 point increase in Culture (2 citizens in the city). And greenline gave Pingala the science boost promotion when the government plaza finished.

Honestly, this loyalty pressure on Mo Li Hua has been great, because not only am I ruining the city's yields, but greenline is forced to keep Pingala there, where he's doing the least amount of good. The best move for greenline would have been to get a 2nd governor with that 3rd title and just move Pingala back to the capital. That would be worth 5 points and change of culture. I'm much happier with my use of my governor titles.




Overall view of Korea. Urtin Duu grew a turn earlier than I expected. With +2 fpt and 15 food required to grow from 1 to 2, it should have taken 8 turns, right? Either my calculation is off or greenline found a way to get an extra point of food there?




Lastly.... The UI says it's only losing 1.6 loyalty a turn, which would be a lot slower than the 18 turn revolt indicates. Wonder if there's some additional penalty?

Well, let's take some bets: Will greenline be able to stabilize loyalty here before the city Rebels? Clock is ticking....  

Now that I can see China's stats, I can make some rough guesses about Krill's empire composition. I suspect that Krill has been using Yongle's food project.... because I think China has just 2 cities still, but a total of 15 population: Capital size 9, and second city size 6. Both are content. Capital can grow to size 10/11 and remain content. Second city will become unhappy if it grows to 7. I'm kind of shocked if Krill is still on 2 cities and is not producing more settlers, but perhaps their goal was to rush the capital to size 10? If I'm right, that'll happen soon.

That would be an instant +10 science, +10 culture, and +20 gold. Which.... would just about put Krill on par with me for those stats.  

I may be guessing wrong, of course. This is just what makes sense based on the score I've been tracking. It does feel reassuring if this is the case. That my strategy of building Settlers pays off. My big worry was that China would spam a lot of early cities, and THEN grow like 5-6 of them to size 10 in the mid game....

[Whosit]

Seriously though, it wasn't that it was Elizabeth of India so much as who was playing.

Ha - true, but neither do I expect Whosit of Rome vs. greenline of Korea to play out in quite the same way as LiPing-to-Whosit of Rome vs. Plako of Korea!  Though I admit greenline did have a fairly long-lasting island empire in his latest Civ4 game (just-ended PB74) it ... wasn't the same.

Yeah, I just noticed that PB74 wrapped up. RB Civ4 is a completely different beast from Civ 6, but it may be worth reading greenline's thread just to get a better idea about how they play. I'm starting with Commodore's thread, of course. XD Those huge Pitboss games are fun to read after the fact.

I also agree that this showdown between Rome and Korea will probably go differently..... Probably!

[Whosit]

Turn 71 has rolled around. Lots of juicy info to go over! I feel like I take too many pictures, lol!




Looks like greenline is bringing that Builder home. Maybe you shouldn't have cut off my slinger or my galley!




Speaking of galley.... maybe get a peek at Chinese cities next turn?




I just remembered I can look at the trade screen to see cities LOL. For a second I thought my number crunching on China was wrong, but double checked the stats and 3rd city was founded just this last turn. I'm very curious to see what Krill's game has looked like after things are over.




Gonna finally be filling in some more of the map out here. I want to be able to claim some more land out here, which I think I can do even with my wonder building and war planning, but I'm going to have to start drafting up Settling plans soon.




Japan's newest city. This settler came from the capital. Japan will have a 4th city in a few more turns.




Japan gets those Splendid districts so easily lol. This will have a build cost of 102. But it will be a major boost for Japan's economy when it's finished.




Big chops.


 


 




I've built the world's first wonder! Granted, in a 5 player game, the competition is a lot less fierce. I'm more worried about someone else working on the Pyramids, but I really don't think anyone else is building wonders at the moment. You can also see how this has turbo-charged my capital's growth, something I thought was a weakness it has with few high-food tiles. Also, against my expectations, the city is happy this turn!




Finally got my 3rd mine. But glad it took me this long, since the other benefit of Free Inquiry is that Eurekas are worth 50%, instead of the normal 40%. That's 180 science out of thin air!




Best I can tell, harvested production and gold apply immediately, but there's a 1 turn delay on food. Probably something to do with the code of how cities grow? That's my best guess anyway. But as far as I can tell, 23 food was applied directly to the city without taking any penalty from the growth cap.


 

Tweaked my Builder plan slightly. Originally, this builder would put a Plantation on the Spices, and the Builder north of it would come down to chop that Jungle. It's a little more efficient to chop the Rainforest earlier, and speeds up the Capital's growth. It also allows me to move Magnus a couple turns earlier (and Pingala will come to live in Bombay). Waiting an extra couple of turns for another luxury isn't that big a deal.

One of the few things I didn't take a picture of is that I swapped Burmese from the Harbor to the Granary. Wish I had done that last turn tbh. I realized that getting the city to keep growing its pop is a slightly higher priority, especially if I want to keep up pressure on Mo Li Hua. Bengal will have its granary chopped out in like.... 7 turns.

Since turns are slow right now (though I hold out hope for a 2nd turn later today), I was working on something else that I will put in a separate post, just so I can post this and move on for a minute.

[Whosit]

So, with some spare time, I tried to see if I could deduce exactly what's going on in Korea right now. I'm just gonna drop my raw notes.

Turn 71 Korean City Status
Suspected Policies: Conscription, Caravansaries, Urban Planning
Other: +10% growth from pantheon

Arirang (Capital): Size 5, Content
Working:
City Center: 2 food, 3 production, 1 science
Pasture Sheep: 2f/3p
Pasture Horse: 3f/2p
Camp Truffle: 2f/2p/5g
Wheat Farm: 3f/1p
Wheat Farm: 3f/1p

Total Food/Production: 5.5fpt/13ppt

Scarborough Fair: Size 4, Unhappy (-10%)
City Center: 2f/1p
Wheat Farm: 3f/1p
Iron Mine: 1f/3p/2sci
Maize Farm?: 3f/1p/2g
Banana: 3f/2p

Total Food/Production: 4fpt/8.1ppt

Mo Li Hua (Venice): Size 3, Unhappy, Disloyal (-50% yields)
City Center: 2f/2p
Tiles worked?: 6f/7p
Trade Route: 3f/2p

Total Food/Produciton: 2.5fpt/5.5ppt

Urtin Duu: Size 2, Content
City Center: 2f/1p/2g
Horses: 2f/2p
Iron: 1f/2p/1sci

Total Food/Production: 1.1fpt/5ppt

Gwangju: Size 1, Content
City Center: 2f/1p
Oasis: 3f/0p/1g

Total Food/Production: 3.3fpt/1ppt

....

Science: 21.5
Capital: 9.5
S. Fair: 8 > 7.2
Mo Li Hua: 4.5 > 2.3?
Urtin Duu: 2
Gwangju: 0.5
It adds up!!

I also wanted to use the opportunity to compare to MY cities and see how I think my choices stacked up vs greenlines. Now, granted, I am very aware that greenline drew a short straw on their spawn position, but I also think that they didn't make the most of what they did have.

(I also realized my confusion on Urtin Duu's growth in a previous post. I forgot to factor in the 10% growth bonus!)

So, as expected, the capital is the largest and most productive city in Korea. Let's compare it to Bombay!

Arirang is size 5 compared to Bombay at 6. And I have built 1 more Settler out of my capital that Korea has.

Arirang:+5.5 food surplus per turn, and 13 production/turn
Bombay: +12.1 food/turn, and 16 base production/turn. 18 base with Autocracy bonuses, and 19 base when building a Wonder or Building. And a 10% boost on top if I can keep the city happy!

Arirang has 5 improved tiles and 2 districts (Seowon, Gov Plaza)
Bombay has 5 improved tiles (soon to be 6), 2 districts (Go Plaza with Ancestral Hall, Commercial Hub), and 1 Wonder (soon to be 2, hopefully).

My capital wins lol. I'm sorry I ever said anything bad about the terrain! I don't know what everyone else's capitals look like. I can tell that Japan's capital is size 3, and I think that China has a size 9 capital. That's probably pretty impressive.

Second cities:
Scarborough Fair: +4 food/turn and 8.1 production/turn. It suffers from a happiness penalty.
Bengal: +1.6 food/turn and 13.1 production/turn (12 base). Bengal is happy! But it's at 6/6 housing, so growing at a glacial pace.

Scarborough Fair has 4-5 improved tiles, depending on where one of the mines is assigned, but 3 of those improvements are farms. It has 1 district (Seowon) with a Com Hub in production.
Bengal has 3 improved tiles (with a 4th in a couple turns), 1 district (Commercial Hub) and an Encampment in production.

Similar number of tile improvements, and districts, but Bengal has a big production lead. It's as productive as Korea's Arirang!

Mo Li Hua/Venice is uh.... an albatross around Korea, I think. LOL. Pingala is stuck there. I already talked about that. I guess I'd compare that to Burmese?

Mo Li Hua: +2.5 food/turn and 5.5 prod/turn. It's a bit of guesswork because I'm not exactly sure how all the penalties interact.
Burmese: +2 food/turn (50% growth penalty), and 12 prod/turn (3 from trade route).

Mo Li Hua has 2 improved tiles that were created by Venice, and Burmese has 2 improved tiles and will have a Harbor.... eventually. And this is with Burmese being 1 size larger.

Honestly, if Mo Li Hua weren't being crushed by loyalty pressure, it would probably eek out ahead. But it is so it isn't.

Urtin Duu vs Persian
Urtin Duu: +1 food/turn and 5 prod/turn
Persian: +2 food/turn and 7 prod/turn

Persian is a size larger so that's mainly what puts it ahead. But it's a size larger because it was founded much earlier, and that's one of the things that matters! Persian has 1 improved tile (Truffles) and has completed a Commercial Hub. It's producing 13 gold for my empire! Urtin Duu is producing 2 gold.

Chartreux vs Gwangju is just mean.

Like Persian, Chartreux is currently hurting from a lack of tile improvements, but someday it's going to be incredible.

Oh yeah, something I forgot to mention in my regular turn report: Greenline spent 80 gold to buy the iron tile in Urtin Duu's 2nd ring. I'm wondering if it was really so urgent? But as I've said before: Every gold Korea spends on tiles is gold Korea will not have to upgrade Warriors into Swordsmen. I highly doubt that Korea will have ZERO swords by the time I attack, but Legions lead by a Great General will easily cut down Archers and 1 or 2 regular Swords, so.....

Like, there are a couple of tiles I want to buy for tactical reasons, but since the math says I need to save as much as possible.... that's what I'll do. I'd LOVE to buy a granary or buy a couple of Builders after the Pyramids are finished (or especially when I get Feudalism), since that's a great way to accelerate my Empire, but if I'm gonna war then I'm gonna try to do it right.