[SPOILERS] Seven Isabellas of India

[Sareln]

Oh yeah, that's the most awkward feeling in the world...

[SevenSpirits]

OK, so we have a view on the barb city.



- Only one warrior guarding.
- Working a 3f tile.
- Looks like it will add a hill tile when it grows (in ~7 turns), and probably spit out Warriors relatively quickly after that (like, every 4t if that is indeed a plains hill). Might be worth simming out. I actually don't know much about barb cities.
- There is no way to walk around it. I'll be able to get a bit more scouting in by walking next to the city, but after that my warrior gets a vacation.

My initial thought was to get archery fast to take the city, but it would be more than 20 turns before I could get a single archer down there, and by then there should be several warriors in the city, each at 3+ strength from defensive bonuses.

A better bet would be an axe. So maybe I get to go for bronze working after all. If I were making a map where you can't settle any new cities before killing a city on a hill, I'm pretty sure I'd put copper (and horses, too, so people don't get randomly screwed) in range of city #1. And there are two conveniently empty squares in my BFC...

If BW pans out, wheel is next, then presumably fishing and pottery. In the meantime, what the heck do I build? Stonehenge? A second worker? Maybe just another warrior.

[SevenSpirits]

So I simmed out what it was like to have a barb city there.

First of all, it appears that they (by default) start with 10 hammers. This means if I move my warrior onto the sheep next turn to reduce the barbs' food per turn by 1, a warrior could pop out and attack me before I can escape. That's almost 50% of losing a warrior and promoting a barb - bad idea. So I will keep my warrior still and see if a barb warrior pops out. In that case I'll retreat. This would also confirm that the barbs do not yet have archery, as they would in a single-player game.

The barbs can either spam warriors or build a barracks. Obviously I prefer them to build the barracks. If they build warriors, it's possible they will send a team of two to attack me. In this case, it would be prudent to have a second warrior defender.

It is possible for me to squeeze in a warrior, barracks and a second worker and still build an axe the turn wheel comes in (IF there's copper in the plains north of me). The barracks should leave me with a double-promoted axe when the city is conquered. The drawback is two whips and a chop, going down to size 1 again. After trying it out, I'm thinking I don't need the barracks, particularly since I don't have granaries and my best food tiles are 4 and 3 food. The barbs do not do a good job of defending against the axe so I don't think the extra odds are necessary. But I do need the second warrior. I guess it's nice I didn't start with hunting after all!

[SevenSpirits]

It also doesn't seem to be significantly harder to defeat the barbs if they have archery, which unless Bob WBed it out, they do. With any luck they'll act similarly to those in my sim, who built a single defensive archer and then a barracks. I can lure the archer out with a warrior and capture the city shortly after the barracks finishes.

If they do this, it's actually easier than the other case because I don't have to worry about defending against an early warrior attack.

Anyway, it's kind of lucky the barb city is on a hill. That way I can view it and keep track of what it's building based on how long things take.

[SevenSpirits]

So we managed 2 turns today.

I hung the warrior back for a turn in case a barb warrior completed at EOT 4. However, it didn't. (I'm last in turn order, so I think I get to find out right away.)

Since the barb city makes 1 hammer/turn, this means no barb unit will complete in the next 9 turns barring growth, so I'll go sit on their sheep until they do grow (and start working the plains forest hill). As far as I'm concerned it's now about 99% confirmed that 10 turns from now, they will have built an archer and I'll need to leave until I come back with reinforcements.

Borders also popped this turn and now everyone has the same land area again. To my southwest, I can see two desert incense, one along a river with what looks like a flood plains on the other side. Galleys could be pretty important.

While things are still subject to change (particularly if there's no copper!), I think I will be happy going worker/warrior/warrior/worker/axe/axe+workboat, with tech going hunting/bronze/wheel/fishing/pottery. It seems pretty efficient, leaves me with multiple explorers and defenders once I crack through the barbs, doesn't spend all my population, and captures the barb city on turn 32.

[T-hawk]

It also doesn't seem to be significantly harder to defeat the barbs if they have archery, which unless Bob WBed it out, they do.

I am not sure that the barbarians would have Archery. IIRC, barbarians get any tech that N-1 civilizations know. In a Monarch difficulty game with AIs, all the AIs start with Archery so the barbs get it right away. But human players do not start with it.

You could test by running a hotseat game on your own with say 3 human players. Monarch difficulty, worldbuilder in a barb city on the first turn, just skip turns for the players and see what the barbs do.

[SevenSpirits]

I think the Monarch handicap causes every non-human civilization including the barbs to start with archery. I could be wrong though, I'll give it a try.

[pocketbeetle]

Following along with interest.

I can lure the archer out with a warrior and capture the city shortly after the barracks finishes.

When you say capture, do you mean raze or keep?
What are your thoughts on the barbarian city placement relative to your capital for the longterm?

[SevenSpirits]

Definitely keep! I can't know for sure if it's the best location yet, but it's a city, and it should have 2 pop left after capture, and it has two food resources in the first ring. Looks good enough to me!

[SevenSpirits]

So past the barb city is the end of the island. Yeah, I'm keeping it anyway. Hey, it even comes with an extra clam! I guess I'll go for sailing after fishing instead of pottery though. Fingers crossed on having copper - I guess it's possible the mapmaker hates us and wants us to go settle other lands.



You can also see that Reverend and Nakor got hunting. Athlete already has it. Not sure why Jowy didn't get it too (as Rome, he has fishing and mining) but it's not worth fretting over.

I don't think being on an island changes how much of a priority capturing the barb city is. I shouldn't be able to settle offshore safely without axes anyway, so I might as well obviate the need for them on my main island first.

Overall, kind of a sad turn as I don't like island maps (I prefer my seawater in large lakes, and I hate the super-strength of the great lighthouse). But we'll see what the rest of it looks like.