[PB79] Just one more Game

[Tarkeel]

I had no idea about the water percentage thing either until I read the posts in this thread. Something to keep in mind for future maps I guess.

Yeah, it's not widely known as most maps will have that much water by default, which is why I added it to my guide.

[xist10]

Okay, there was enough water.
This makes 5c trade routes in Carthage.

Miro declares war - not surprising - and coldrains GA ends. Taosism is surprising. I don't think is a problem for coldrain and coldrain loses a bit of culture from his other religions.




okay, like I expected based on power. this will go quick.




I want my part too and I offer Miro this deal.
2 cities for me and I declare in 2 turns. You get the other 5.
I don't think Miro will like it and I want to know what is going to be Miro's reaction, but this will not hurt me (Miro attacked) and can improve the knew neighbourhood.




coldrain gets a Deal.




Did I say that I don't like the distance component in the trade routes ? And the bigger map size did created a nerf to that too.
Otherwise, I would have at least a 4c traceroute from Thapsus (and Carthage ?) in all cities and 5c from Carthage in all island cities.

[xist10]

Yes, this is quick.
And I wanted to conquer this.




Rick lost Rome too.

I think, Miro divided his army in 4 parts. The 2 parts I saw with my numid and at least 2 small fleets.




And settlers here.




Like I send Miro, I attacked this turn.
4 knights are not that much, but should be enough against Praet and warrior.




And there is trouble brewing on the other side.
coldrain whipped a few times - I think knights too.
coldrain declined a happiness deal last turn.

I want to continue to have peace.
Do coldrain wants peace too ?

_____




Maybe a mistake from me.
After Miro moved before me in T138, I moved before Miro in T139.
This should be no problem, because Miro shouldn't be able to attack Cumae this turn.
And it was late for me, so I wanted the possibility for another turn this night.




The attack wasn't successfull. The first knight lost without an own hit.
I lost a second knight to the praet and lost a third fight to the praet, but this time, the knight retreated.
The 4th knight was able to kill the warrior (another small mistake, because I think, Miro has only the 1 Choko as forwarded unit and so could be able to win against the praet next turn.




coldrain declined the Fish/Fish too. And has scouting galleys in my waters.
I close the borders and end the rice/rice.




And reoffer this.
I don't need the open borders. Caravels allow scouting without OG and I don't need the traderoutes. With the circumnavigation, I get the 4c from my intern traderoutes.

____




I think, this means war ?
Longbows and castles in the island cities, caravels towards the border.




And now the question:
I'm allowed to attack Cumae this turn before Miro ?
Miro has "only" one Choko next to the city, but there is a small chance.
So do we need a Coin toss ?

And I think, I'm allowed to send Miro an offer for Arretium, or ?

[Tarkeel]

And now the question:
I'm allowed to attack Cumae this turn before Miro ?
Miro has "only" one Choko next to the city, but there is a small chance.
So do we need a Coin toss ?

And I think, I'm allowed to send Miro an offer for Arretium, or ?

Yes, you're allowed to attack Cumae before Miro as you played before him last turn.

As for Arretium, the agreed upon rules for this game is 1/deal, so that should be fair.

[xist10]

I lost another knight to the praet.
I was thinking about razing this city.




Cumae is maybe a good city by itself (no food in first ring, so even that not the case), but in the larger context ?
I really wanted to raze Cumae and refound it on the coast 1 SW. This would allow 2 more cities instead of one. The plains hill with the chokos and another city in the east ?

I have only 9 knights in the area. I think I could win a confrontation at the moment, because Miro seemed to have split his army and I have 6 movement vs. 2.

I plan another city in the NW of Cumae. Red would be a hill, white a coast city and has access to the wheat.




I try to buy Arretium from Miro.

[xist10]

Interesting offer.
I don't really want to give up Cumae, but I want Arretium.
I think I will accept, I need a peaceful border here.
Maybe my paranoia creates a war, but I expect coldrain to plan a war and I'm not strong enough to hold a 2v1 (yet). In afew turns, I think I could have secured most cities with LBS and castles, but at the moment ?




Still, I modify this a bit.
Arretium +1g should mean, I will get another city for this. Copper and wheat should indicate, that I want to copper/wheat spot near Cumae.

Just like declaring war on Rick, Miro shouldn't be able to stop this, but it's better to try and communicate this.




Fish/Fish next
Let us formalise this.




And at last, the juice bit.
Are you interested in an alliance against coldrain ?
Like I wrote, I don't think coldrain is interesting to maintain peace between us.




Still, longbow behind walls are not an easy target.
But Optics is a research, I interpret primary as tech against me.
coldrain doesn't have the 100% for domestic trade routes, so he shouldn't need the additional 50% for harbours.
Okay, this means, he needs OG for international trade routes, which he lacks at the moment, but this is his fault.

I'm thinking about building (whipping) one or two axes from my cities and upgrading the axes with gold.
I think my income his high enough.

[Tarkeel]

[screenshot]https://www.civforum.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=2138998[screenshot]

You forgot to close the screenshot tags. Interesting trades going on here!

[xist10]

The most important part of this picture is the research on the bottom right for R145.
Still, this is a map full of resources, so I really think, I should save a GM and a GI.
This would delay my next GA a bit, because the next GP should be used for a shrine.




And here the juicy bit.
I see coldrains army thanks to my espionage - coldrain is the only one without a courthouse.
This is a bit stronger than my mobile force, but I think, 1, 2 catapults and I would win in the moment.

But the dangerous bit is the astro research. Only 2 more turns.
This could be a problem.




coldrain is still missing paper, so I think, I should be faster if coldrain researches galleons conventional. My research rate should be about the double of coldrains and I have researched most of the bureaucracy tech already.

But I know, coldrain has still at last 1 GS (and 2 GM) and I suspect coldrain has already invested 1 GS in Astro.
When coldrain finishes paper with the GS ?

Gira started the 2nd GA with his 3rd GP last turn and should have no GP left, Miro got his first GP a few turns ago (GS) and got the music GA too.






With 3 players, I can calculate the data for every player.
Food: 1. coldrain with 422, second Miro with 407. I'm 3rd with 394, Gira last with 290.
Prod: Gira 1st with 317 (GA, still good), I'm 2nd with 230. I'm not sure about Miro and coldrain, but with 199 and 192 the difference is small.
Commerce is a bit difficult.
I'm 1st with 598. The second has 454. This should be Gira. Gira is in a GA, has FIN and is researching.
3rd should be Miro with 302. Miro has 2 eco traits, but the influence on the GNP should be minimal at this stage.
Last would be coldrain with 297 - no eco trait and no pretech bonus.

[xist10]

Small update:
coldrain is losing the spy game.
I expect to have city visibility for all know cities in 2 turns. Most cities already next turn.
Investigation is a bit longer, but for most coastal cities ? ~ 4 turns at the moment ?

This could allow me to delay paper and Astro a bit longer.
And this is something I really want. Paper will cost me about 90c, Astro "only" about 60c. Both techs together are about a fourth of my GNP and I think about a third of my research.
With that in Mind, I'm really asking me, if I can delay that a bit longer.

The interesting point is, I found 1 great merchant in "The Grid". I think, coldrain has used the other merchant for a trade mission - otherwise, I can't explain the fact, that coldrain is researching for about ~6 turns straight and has mora gold than I have.

And I'm starting to suspect, that there is a possibility, that coldrain has invested the second scientist in philosophy. I'm not sure about this.

This is a good new - coldrain lost his good chance for a third GA, maybe even his 2nd GA, but even bad. coldrain has invested much in Astro (at least 2 GP) and as such, I expect him to expect returns. And the only way to get a "good" RoI from Astro (and coldrains position) are my islands.

[xist10]

Dammit, coldrain.




I forgot about privateers.
coldrain is researching gunpowder instead of civil service->paper.

I first thought, yay, I can relax a bit, I should be faster at chemistry, but better ships are already possible with gunpowder.





So I need to follow.
And the big question is, how do I do it ?

The safe way would be 2 turn gunpowder, research Astro with the overflow.
This would give me 2 more turns of the colossus.

Astro-> gunpowder in2 turns with overflow could be possible, but a) do I need to do it and b) it's possible ?

Time to calculate.
I spend already 2744/2990 on Astro, gunpowder needs 1794 .
I get a 20% pretech bonus for gunpowder. So I need only 1495 for gunpowder (1,2 = 6/5 -> 1794 /(6/5) = (1794 /6)*5) = 299 * 5 = 1495 ).

If I can trust the tooltip, I produce 925 this turn - after I changed the woked tiles for max c.
So I need 816 next turn.
I'm working 79 coastal tiles. This makes -79 and at least 844 next turn.
So I have a buffer of about 40 for researching Astro->Gunpowder.

So I should take this, or ?
The one turn more could be decisive, even if I lose at least 120 with the faster outdated colossus.




I still haven got visibility on most cities, because this updates one turn later in the PB - but only to get vision, I lose vision on the "correct" turn.




My forces are a bit weaker. I think I should be able to beat a land invasion, but a strike on an island ? This should be very expensive thanks to hills, longbows and castles, but gunpowder allows muskets, which would ignore my new castles.




Demo is the wrong tech, but this is for comparasion.
Astro and paper will cost me about 200 GNP.
This means, I would still be first before Gira in a GA, but this is a close call.
Add Miro with 30 cities this turn and I don't like my situation.