American Politics Discussion Thread

[Mjmd]

I am not ignoring it. I am saying do you really think there will never be another time where accountability will be required? Is this one time worth all the others? If we turn into an autocracy what will you do next time accountability is required? And the next. And the next. And the next. That is the reason I argue its above everything else. Every election there are issues we think are wrong or should change. Every single election. But if those elections stop mattering then what are the chances that we the people can get things changed and hold the powerful accountable? That is gone.

I play the odds. You tell me which party pushes Israel aid more. You tell me which party wanted to pass a standalone Israel aid bill and which party wanted to include more humanitarian aid. Compare what the candidates are saying and tell me who sounds worse on this issue. Seriously please answer these. Its not "judging thought crime". Its looking at the most likely scenario and trying to save the most lives. Answer me a hypothetical question. IF Trump ends up worse will you commit to admitting you were wrong? Its very likely. Again, answer all the above questions as well. If this is truly the 1 issue you care about, it makes no sense to ignore everything else but assigning blame to the person who isn't even the president atm.

You aren't accounting for any future life or the future of our country and instead are cherry picked focused on this issue in isolation. I've admitted its POSSIBLE emotionally to understand that, even if it isn't logical. If I want less people to die in the future that means I care about life shockingly. STOP doing ad hominins. You do it every other post.

Your argument is cherry picked, assigns the blame to the vice president, and ignores likely outcome. ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. The least you can do is answer my questions. By ignoring them I have to assume you don't want to admit I'm right. I'm just going to keep asking you to answer the questions.

[Charr Babies]

Kamala, same as biden.
The only thing going for her is that she is a female and she is black. A win for her.
Trump has a chance to stop war in Ukraine. A win just on that.
I have morals and value life.

I am not going to entertain your fantasy and debate on your conjectures.

"The dead stays dead" OMFG!

[Mjmd]

SO you assign blame for all Bidens decisions on his VP that by all accounts he didn't rely on much (which honestly in most elections would give me pause, but again Democracy first). Not very logical.

Trump has a chance to have Ukraine surrender. PEACE IN OUR TIME!!!! They will surely do nothing more after we've given them what they want. Or the other option is Europe keeps supporting (or heck just Poland) and more Ukrainians die because they are getting less support.

I VALUE LIFE TOO. See the living people you won't answer questions on which party you think will affect their lives more in the future. Ya those people. Do you care about those people? I know you don't care about our democracy although you should. You wouldn't have this opportunity for accountability without it. which again, is why keeping that ability is the most important thing.

[Charr Babies]

Why not blame biden on kamala our vise president, when you can blame trump for genocide? But I am not blaming kamala. I am giving you that all 3 are more or less the same on israel. Just that trump has a big chance of stopping the ukraine war. At least that's a promise, while kamala stands for nothing except turning a new page (from trump, aka, passing the buck, aka not accountable). A win for trump.

[Charr Babies]

This song keep playing in my mind 
For Kamala
Here comes the new boos, same as the old boss.
Won't get folled again.

[Mjmd]

Why not blame biden on kamala our vise president, when you can blame trump for genocide? But I am not blaming kamala. I am giving you that all 3 are more or less the same on israel. Just that trump has a big chance of stopping the ukraine war. At least that's a promise, while kamala stands for nothing except turning a new page (from trump, aka, passing the buck, aka not accountable). A win for trump.

I'm not blaming trump for genocide. I'm saying based on all evidence it's likely to get worse under him. You have not refuted my assumptions. Please explain why you see them as even based on their statements made.

What are your assumptions on how ukraine war stops and results. I've stated mine but you haven't gone into yours other than war magically stops and nothing bad will result.

[Charr Babies]

I'm not blaming trump for genocide. I'm saying based on all evidence it's likely to get worse under him. You have not refuted my assumptions. Please explain why you see them as even based on their statements made.

What are your assumptions on how ukraine war stops and results. I've stated mine but you haven't gone into yours other than war magically stops and nothing bad will result.

Yes you are. You proved trump is worse with your funky math. Your proof, however ludicrous, is based on what he has says, not his actions. Ignoring the fact that the biden regime actually did it - action. By the same token, then it is reasonable to believe he will stop the ukraine war based on what he says. It is enough that nations are preparing for a possible end of the war if trump returns.

I am not interested in the exact details how it will be done or pretend to know. I won't go into wild conjectures as you often do, convincing yourself that you have all the answers. I am against biden and the gang base on facts. I don't need to defend trump. He is a PoS, but NOTHING IS WORSE THAN GENOCIDE. 

"The dead stays dead" OMFG, what an offensive pile of vomit!

[Mjmd]

I said he was likely to be worse. An assumption you have in no way denied. In addition to his recent statements, he has some actions during his presidency like moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and changing the US position on Israeli settlements that are pretty good indicators of future likely actions. We have actions of the current Republicans being the driving force behind more aid to Israel. Yes Biden signed the law so he still gets the blame, but just ignoring where the political push is coming from is being purposefully blind.

You are against genocide but support Putins war. How interesting. See in one of the scenarios we are supporting the side defending their country against an aggressor and in the other we are supporting the aggressor. I expect if you are against the aggressor in one of them for you to be against the aggressor in the other. Appeasement doesn't work. If you ignore the "how" you are again being almost purposefully blind. Again to me it seems like you are trying to arrive at a conclusion to vote for Trump without actually without considering consequences.

You want to hold Kamala accountable for Joe Bidens actions (and house republicans whom I assume you will be voting against), but you don't see the irony in using the power of accountability once and then losing it. If you care about accountability the most important thing is to KEEP IT. You've never answered my central tenant and keep diverting. EVER. ANSWER IT.

Am I wrong? Is it more important to care about the dead or the living? You seem to be ignoring all facts and likely consequences to the later.

[Charr Babies]

Funny you have made up 2 pages of the most funky calculations to prove he's worse. I have screenshot it, that was a master piece. I don't support genocide. I don't believe the charge on Putin to be 100%, just like China on Tibet and Xinjiang. Don't bother to argue over this disagreement, while we both agree its genocide in Gaza. 

EVER. ANSWER IT.

LoL. I have answered this time and time again in many ways I hoped even you can understand. Stop pretending. THERE IS NO ACCOUNTIBILTY NOW, no one is being charged for genocide and we have people like you defending it. Voting for the same regime means NO ACCOUNTIBILTY in the future. While, your presumption there is no accountability for the future if trump returns is you playing supreme judge that trump is guilty without a trial.

There goes your red herring again. It is not either-or, the living or the dead
YES YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. The dead were living and did not deserve to die. What about the innocent living who are about to die and would be written off as the dead stays dead. How about stop creating more dead. If you care about life how about not killing them in the first place. Is that how you sentence a murderer? The dead stay dead, let bygones be bygones, you are free to go?

"THE DEAD STAYS DEAD"  I have never heard such disrespect for the innocent deaths of women and children until now. I didn't think you were capable...

I am done with this thread. You can twist my words and put some in my mouth, and have your last words.

PS. I still have one more post (maybe in a day or two) from a comment you made about my signature near the start of this thread, but not directly relate to it.

[Mjmd]

Oh Putin and China get a free pass? How interesting; you go all moral high ground and then casually sweep others under the rug. But this is a good example of WHY accountability is important. Is there any chance for those regimes to have accountability? NO. The only pressure they get on human rights is from free speech democracies. Trump tried to overturn the election. We know he pressured the DOJ, state reps, attorneys generals, governors, and his own vice president. We have a phone call you can listen to if you want. And it may not be Trump who finally kills our Democracy, but if we don't care its coming. I don't want it to happen period and the first step is to make sure Trump doesn't get power ever again. What happens the next time we need accountability? Or the time after that? Or the time after that? Is the 1 worth all future ones.

Its not a red herring. Its a which is more important? The dead did not deserve to die, but neither do the living. You aren't wrong that political accountability can help the living. It 100% can. I would love it if we stopped creating more dead. BUT is Trump likely to do that. YES OR NO?

You want to do ad hominems. FINE. You literally have a "free tibet whatever the fuck that is" as part of your tag. I've been treating this argument seriously and don't do ad hominems every other post, but its really hard when there is such blatant hypocrisy EVERY POST. Its hard to take this seriously when you refuse to acknowledge Trumps statements. I would love it if we stopped creating more dead. Is Trump likely to do that. YES OR NO?